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[Music]

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hello and welcome to the show

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i'm martin willis your host and we've

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got another great one for you tonight we

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have mike rogers

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and uh if you watched the movie fire in

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the sky or

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if you uh really looked into the travis

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walton incident

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uh mike was actually the driver back in

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november

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of 1975 and i think the truck

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it was one of those international

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harvester uh

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type cool old trucks i had a

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international and all i remember about

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it is it

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shook all over the road had way too much

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play in the steering wheel

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and it was tremendously loud inside

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that's all i remember about the

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harvester when my father had when i was

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growing up

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uh and mike and his work crew uh which

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include travis walton of course

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kenneth peterson uh alan dallas dwayne

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smith steve pierce

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john gallette they had quite an evening

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and quite the

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next few days we're going to be talking

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about that and believe it or not this

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guy

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also was a witness to the phoenix lights

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back in march 13 1997 i believe that's

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the date

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um so we're going to be talking about

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that and we're going to be giving away a

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couple of tickets this has to do with

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kgra

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radio and i'm going to try not much at

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reading

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commercials but i'm going to read this

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now and we're going to do that at the

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top of the hour i think we'll give away

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two tickets

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um so here it goes the dark zone

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presents the queen mary virtual

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haunt and music fest notice i said the

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word virtual

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and uh this event will be

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will occur on october 29th through

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november 1st

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2020 uh be the third caller or we'll

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figure that out

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and you will win a chance uh for an

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exclusive free live stream ticket

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and you'll enjoy 24-hour surveillance

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that's interesting i have to ask what

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that means

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uh interaction with your favorite

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paranormal investigators

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live music a halloween costume contest

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i wonder how they're going to judge that

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and this event will be brought to you

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exclusively by the kgra digital

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broadcasting station

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courtesy of the dark zone dot tv

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so there was my little commercial so uh

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tonight and we are going to be going for

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the first uh 55 minutes or so

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and then we're gonna go into the break

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and we'll figure out that whole

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uh that whole situation how to give away

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those tickets and all that

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uh once we get to it now

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we have the blog as usual like we do

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every week

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and uh by charles lear who also does our

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audio blogs

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and the name of that one is apol

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that is a i can't remember what that

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stands for exactly

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of course it has to do with the ufos and

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princess moon owl of the ufo that's an

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ori that's the name of the story

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and that's also the date 1975

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a book by john keel it starts out

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talking about the mothman prophecies and

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all that very interesting stuff

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so uh check out the blog as usual over

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at podcastufo.com

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and you can also support the show from

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there for two dollars or more

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a month so uh go ahead and check that

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out also our facebook page is very

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active

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i think we have over twenty two thousand

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people over there and we're actually

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streaming over there as well

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so welcome to all you facebook watchers

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and

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hanging we're gonna have a great show

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this evening and without further ado

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i'm bringing in our guest hello mike uh

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hello mike how are you hello how are you

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doing

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to you and uh we have uh

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i've talked to a number of people on uh

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that was involved i got to try to figure

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out how to do the screen

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better was involved in the travis well i

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say a number of people a couple people i

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should say

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um of course travis walden steve pierce

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and gee i think that might be it

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actually yeah that is it so you

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are the third and i think you had a very

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uh well i want to say you had a front

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row seat you were driving the truck

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and is that is the memory of the whole

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thing at this point in your life

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crystal clear still more than so

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more than so as a matter of fact uh my

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mind has opened up so much in the last

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call it actually started in 1975

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i i don't you know i don't even know how

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to explain it

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i really don't uh my mind is just opened

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up that's the best i can say right now

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in a short way uh

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i i'm still a realist i mean in fact i'm

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more i'm more

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of a realist now than i ever was before

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but i'm also open to everything you know

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but i'm also i hate to say this

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i seem to be more intelligent way more

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because i can do things now that i've

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never been able to do before

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things that i can prove some of the

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stuff that i've sent you

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uh you know i cannot i wouldn't be the

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first one to

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that on this show

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that uh after an encounter

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in general you know i mean i've spoken

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with um say for instance uh

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the guys from the allagash incident uh

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totally changed

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their lives um after that and who knows

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if there's some type of

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possible connection from what you go

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through who knows i

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i talk about open mind i try to have an

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open mind

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and because i i think there's so much

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that we don't know

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that's going on all the time around us

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yeah

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you know i infiltrated that group a

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it's funny that you bring that up

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because that's just one of the things

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that i've done

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that one of the things that has become

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very clear to me

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is i can tell almost instantly if

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something is genuine or not

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and that experience just from setting

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without those guys

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they didn't even know who i was okay

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oh shoot i just find all this so damn

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funny i mean i just i literally laugh

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so let's uh let's let's go back for the

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you know there i i say this all the time

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i'd say 95

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probably of all the listeners uh

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listening to the show right now know

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you know all about or a lot about the

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travis walton

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incident but but i'd like to hear it

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from your perspective

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and uh what happened that night now i

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know you've probably told us a thousand

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times

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it might get old to you but we would

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love to hear your perspective because

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that's something i haven't

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i haven't heard well that's another

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thing that happened nothing gets old to

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me anymore it gets better and fresher

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and

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it's

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put me on somebody put me on autopilot

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and i'm just along for the ride i mean

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that's the way it feels

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it really does because i don't even

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understand this stuff

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i i'm running on automatic of some kind

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okay anyway ask me what you want to

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martin

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yeah so i just if you could recount um

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what

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that whole experience was like uh the

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night when you were driving uh

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the crew back over the road and thought

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you saw i think you first

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you thought there was actually a fire or

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some what did you think the light was at

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first when you

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rounded the corner and well i was

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driving the truck so i didn't really see

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it clear enough you know all i can do is

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glance over that way

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and and at times because right now i'm

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saying i remember this stuff

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in so much detail that

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if i get into it really that way you

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would need three or four hours

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just to get in get through that

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experience okay okay

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so i'm gonna have to do it the old

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boring way

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pretty much whatever it works for you

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yeah okay

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well i'll try no

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all the trouble is my mind keeps seeing

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things that i never saw before

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okay at facts that just come seem to

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have come out of the woodwork

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but they're still facts they're all

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verifiable i mean absolute you know

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but who anyway and the answer to your

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question

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uh i couldn't see it all that clearly uh

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i i could glance over there because i

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was keeping my eye on the road

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and and we were going very slow but the

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road was very very rough

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and uh and the scene kept changing as as

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the road would

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weave back and forth you know uh

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yeah all that stuff that those guys said

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is is correct

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uh they were talking about

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you know uh a lot a fire

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you know campfire uh crash plane

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uh all kind of you know because the

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closer we got to it

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and like i say we're going very slow

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about five miles an hour

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the closer we got to it uh the more

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excited they got

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and um finally when we rounded you know

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get back into the old thing you

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finally rounded this uh a bit of a

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corner and at the same time you know we

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broke into a clearing because this area

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uh where we were was very dense uh with

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with not only large trees but small

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trees you know pickets

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and that pretty much blocked off the

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light there for a little while

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so when we came into broke into that

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clearing uh

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you know travis jumped out i mean right

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then

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and uh i said travis you know i i

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remember yelling at travis

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what are you doing you know but my my

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voice was drowned out by

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all the other guys making similar

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comments you know they were astounded by

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him doing that uh and and

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he started out in a kind of a brisk walk

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uh that uh that lasted seven ten twelve

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steps

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you know gradually he slowed down put

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that way

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when he first jumped out like the first

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two steps was like running

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but very quickly he just slowed down

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until finally

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when he got oh probably 50 feet away

283
00:11:09,350 --> 00:11:06,800
from the truck

284
00:11:10,550 --> 00:11:09,360
uh he was he was just walking and then

285
00:11:13,590 --> 00:11:10,560
he got up to

286
00:11:15,430 --> 00:11:13,600
the edge of this brush pile which pretty

287
00:11:15,829 --> 00:11:15,440
much hindered him from going any further

288
00:11:17,590 --> 00:11:15,839
but

289
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:17,600
this obvi i could tell from where he was

290
00:11:22,870 --> 00:11:19,600
looking and from you know

291
00:11:23,990 --> 00:11:22,880
uh depth perception that this object was

292
00:11:28,150 --> 00:11:24,000
right above that

293
00:11:29,509 --> 00:11:28,160
brush pile right above it and so uh he

294
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:29,519
stopped right there

295
00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:32,720
uh i don't i don't know what he had done

296
00:11:36,230 --> 00:11:34,320
with the brush pile hadn't gotten

297
00:11:37,590 --> 00:11:36,240
he probably climbed inside to be good

298
00:11:40,870 --> 00:11:37,600
but anyway

299
00:11:43,670 --> 00:11:40,880
he stopped there and uh so

300
00:11:44,790 --> 00:11:43,680
uh you know i couldn't even see the

301
00:11:48,310 --> 00:11:44,800
object at that point

302
00:11:50,310 --> 00:11:48,320
okay i'm just saying this

303
00:11:52,470 --> 00:11:50,320
all this right there what i just said

304
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:52,480
based on what the other guys were seeing

305
00:11:57,110 --> 00:11:53,920
but i didn't actually see it at that

306
00:11:59,829 --> 00:11:57,120
point uh i i stopped the truck

307
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:59,839
and i turned it off because i wonder

308
00:12:03,110 --> 00:12:00,720
what the heck

309
00:12:04,629 --> 00:12:03,120
he was running up there for i i could

310
00:12:07,750 --> 00:12:04,639
see that it was a light

311
00:12:11,910 --> 00:12:10,470
and it was uh not terribly bright you

312
00:12:15,110 --> 00:12:11,920
know

313
00:12:17,590 --> 00:12:15,120
but uh then uh he just stood there with

314
00:12:20,870 --> 00:12:17,600
his hands in his pockets

315
00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:20,880
and uh once i had this truck turned on

316
00:12:24,710 --> 00:12:21,440
and of course

317
00:12:26,790 --> 00:12:24,720
i had to i shoot it's hard for me not to

318
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:26,800
get into these details seriously

319
00:12:29,990 --> 00:12:29,120
i had to push ken who was sitting right

320
00:12:32,790 --> 00:12:30,000
next to me

321
00:12:33,829 --> 00:12:32,800
ken peterson had to kind of push him

322
00:12:36,629 --> 00:12:33,839
over and he like

323
00:12:38,150 --> 00:12:36,639
what the heck are you doing you know he

324
00:12:39,030 --> 00:12:38,160
didn't say that but he just looked at me

325
00:12:42,069 --> 00:12:39,040
that way

326
00:12:44,550 --> 00:12:42,079
and then i could lean over okay

327
00:12:47,509 --> 00:12:44,560
kind of with my head and ken's lap you

328
00:12:54,069 --> 00:12:50,829
and then i can see it

329
00:12:57,750 --> 00:12:54,079
yeah and i was

330
00:12:59,829 --> 00:12:57,760
floored i mean uh it's hard to

331
00:13:01,829 --> 00:12:59,839
say exactly how they hit me because i

332
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:01,839
didn't believe in ufos

333
00:13:05,750 --> 00:13:04,160
i mean we talked about them but but i

334
00:13:07,750 --> 00:13:05,760
didn't you know and we even had an

335
00:13:10,550 --> 00:13:07,760
experience like five years before that

336
00:13:11,269 --> 00:13:10,560
but it wasn't a close encounter you know

337
00:13:12,949 --> 00:13:11,279
it was uh

338
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:12,959
it was very vivid you know five years

339
00:13:18,550 --> 00:13:14,800
before that was very vivid

340
00:13:22,069 --> 00:13:18,560
but it was it was a sphere and it was

341
00:13:25,110 --> 00:13:22,079
like shining brightly and all that but

342
00:13:25,910 --> 00:13:25,120
i say that was five years before uh my

343
00:13:29,190 --> 00:13:25,920
memory of that

344
00:13:33,110 --> 00:13:29,200
at the time was uh kind of vague

345
00:13:40,389 --> 00:13:36,629
anyway yeah i'm sorry it's just

346
00:13:43,110 --> 00:13:40,399
it's just uh i'm i'm at a loss here for

347
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:43,120
for you know i want to laugh i mean i

348
00:13:47,189 --> 00:13:43,920
really do

349
00:13:49,030 --> 00:13:47,199
i just uh all this stuff is so funny to

350
00:13:51,750 --> 00:13:49,040
me just like i explained to you

351
00:13:52,230 --> 00:13:51,760
you know things are just so clear to me

352
00:13:57,750 --> 00:13:52,240
now

353
00:14:02,550 --> 00:14:00,389
but but it strikes me it's funny because

354
00:14:05,670 --> 00:14:02,560
i just don't understand why

355
00:14:06,710 --> 00:14:05,680
anyway back to the story travis is

356
00:14:11,110 --> 00:14:06,720
standing there with his

357
00:14:14,230 --> 00:14:11,120
hands in his pockets okay and uh

358
00:14:18,870 --> 00:14:14,240
and i'm i'm just astounded uh i would

359
00:14:22,069 --> 00:14:20,470
i don't even know how to explain that

360
00:14:24,310 --> 00:14:22,079
feeling sorry

361
00:14:26,230 --> 00:14:24,320
not at least i do but it would take too

362
00:14:29,430 --> 00:14:26,240
long okay

363
00:14:31,030 --> 00:14:29,440
and he's standing there and uh

364
00:14:32,710 --> 00:14:31,040
everybody in the truck starts to get

365
00:14:34,550 --> 00:14:32,720
excited because this thing started

366
00:14:35,670 --> 00:14:34,560
making a noise it started it started

367
00:14:37,350 --> 00:14:35,680
making a noise

368
00:14:40,790 --> 00:14:37,360
and i'm still leaned over there you know

369
00:14:43,670 --> 00:14:40,800
i like to see it you know start to like

370
00:14:44,949 --> 00:14:43,680
move you know rotate slowly and also

371
00:14:50,069 --> 00:14:44,959
kind of bobble a little

372
00:14:54,870 --> 00:14:52,310
um i've heard while you're getting a

373
00:14:56,710 --> 00:14:54,880
drink i've heard people describe

374
00:14:59,110 --> 00:14:56,720
a couple people described that the

375
00:15:01,829 --> 00:14:59,120
lights were an unusual color

376
00:15:02,470 --> 00:15:01,839
one they were unfamiliar with and i just

377
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:02,480
wondered

378
00:15:06,310 --> 00:15:04,160
do you feel that way about the lights of

379
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,320
that whatever it was you were looking at

380
00:15:10,870 --> 00:15:08,639
oh yeah well right now you got the

381
00:15:14,470 --> 00:15:10,880
picture from the movie on the screen

382
00:15:16,470 --> 00:15:14,480
and uh it didn't look anything like that

383
00:15:17,910 --> 00:15:16,480
yeah the movie the movie was very

384
00:15:21,030 --> 00:15:17,920
largely fictitious

385
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:21,040
uh largely yeah yes

386
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:22,959
and that that scene right there that

387
00:15:28,069 --> 00:15:24,399
what they got pictured there is

388
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:28,079
not uh yeah no i didn't

389
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:31,279
have you ever have you ever seen okay

390
00:15:36,870 --> 00:15:34,160
sorry about that yeah i illustrated it

391
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,880
but i didn't send you that illustration

392
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:38,880
yeah i would yeah i was gonna say ask

393
00:15:42,550 --> 00:15:40,000
you if

394
00:15:43,829 --> 00:15:42,560
if you had done something like that or

395
00:15:47,030 --> 00:15:43,839
if you've ever seen

396
00:15:49,749 --> 00:15:47,040
an illustration of something uh

397
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:49,759
closer than you know what you normally

398
00:15:52,870 --> 00:15:50,560
see

399
00:15:53,990 --> 00:15:52,880
if you google you know fire in the sky

400
00:15:56,230 --> 00:15:54,000
or whatever it is

401
00:15:58,069 --> 00:15:56,240
um yeah but have you seen a rendition

402
00:16:00,870 --> 00:15:58,079
that is pretty close to what the object

403
00:16:00,880 --> 00:16:07,269
well a couple of times yes

404
00:16:11,670 --> 00:16:09,910
if you were to describe it is it just a

405
00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:11,680
very difficult thing to describe i mean

406
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:13,120
the shape

407
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,240
okay how much time you've gotten

408
00:16:20,310 --> 00:16:18,079
oh yeah we got we got time i'd like to

409
00:16:22,310 --> 00:16:20,320
hear what it looked like i mean

410
00:16:23,430 --> 00:16:22,320
i don't think i've ever heard the exact

411
00:16:26,710 --> 00:16:23,440
description of it

412
00:16:29,749 --> 00:16:26,720
well it was uh it was a

413
00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:29,759
like an object that was uh similar to

414
00:16:34,870 --> 00:16:32,880
two pie pans put put lip to lip

415
00:16:36,069 --> 00:16:34,880
and there was a slight a slight i mean

416
00:16:38,790 --> 00:16:36,079
you could from our angle

417
00:16:39,269 --> 00:16:38,800
you know which was we were kind of at an

418
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:39,279
angle

419
00:16:43,990 --> 00:16:41,759
probably about 22 and a half percent you

420
00:16:46,629 --> 00:16:44,000
know down

421
00:16:48,790 --> 00:16:46,639
and uh you know from our perspective

422
00:16:49,749 --> 00:16:48,800
there was a dome on top i can see that

423
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:49,759
but from where we

424
00:16:56,069 --> 00:16:52,320
where we were we couldn't quite we could

425
00:17:01,670 --> 00:16:59,509
and uh yeah and and the dome was

426
00:17:02,629 --> 00:17:01,680
uh that's hard to describe it it was

427
00:17:05,990 --> 00:17:02,639
just a round

428
00:17:08,150 --> 00:17:06,000
dome for the most part probably not

429
00:17:09,909 --> 00:17:08,160
perfectly round not like you drew it

430
00:17:13,270 --> 00:17:09,919
with a you know

431
00:17:16,870 --> 00:17:13,280
an instrument but it was round

432
00:17:19,829 --> 00:17:16,880
and it was uh there and it was

433
00:17:20,630 --> 00:17:19,839
barely visible like i say so the color

434
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:20,640
was just

435
00:17:26,150 --> 00:17:23,520
kind of bright and glassy looking in

436
00:17:28,309 --> 00:17:26,160
fact the entire object

437
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:28,319
even though you could see a framework

438
00:17:38,230 --> 00:17:35,110
it uh it had a uh

439
00:17:40,310 --> 00:17:38,240
like as if it was glass okay in fact

440
00:17:43,029 --> 00:17:40,320
uh i and some of the guys just have

441
00:17:45,190 --> 00:17:43,039
described it as as like a brand new car

442
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:45,200
or uh i think john described it like as

443
00:17:50,310 --> 00:17:46,720
a brand new corvette

444
00:17:52,230 --> 00:17:50,320
you know and uh and that that was as

445
00:17:54,789 --> 00:17:52,240
close as we could come to it

446
00:17:57,029 --> 00:17:54,799
it's uh i can explain a little more than

447
00:18:00,070 --> 00:17:57,039
that

448
00:18:00,630 --> 00:18:00,080
you got but uh yeah and if you had to

449
00:18:03,830 --> 00:18:00,640
guess

450
00:18:08,710 --> 00:18:03,840
a a width of this thing

451
00:18:12,390 --> 00:18:08,720
oh 18

452
00:18:13,830 --> 00:18:12,400
feet four inches it wasn't it wasn't

453
00:18:14,870 --> 00:18:13,840
something like 40 feet or something like

454
00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:14,880
that you think it was more like

455
00:18:19,669 --> 00:18:18,000
in the 20-foot range wow

456
00:18:21,590 --> 00:18:19,679
i mean everybody thought different

457
00:18:25,510 --> 00:18:21,600
things at the time i thought yeah

458
00:18:29,190 --> 00:18:25,520
the time but looking back at it now yeah

459
00:18:31,990 --> 00:18:29,200
18 feet 4 inches

460
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:32,000
give or take an inch yeah yeah i never

461
00:18:36,390 --> 00:18:33,039
take a few

462
00:18:39,110 --> 00:18:36,400
quarters of an inch or something yeah

463
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:39,120
i'm not perfect with this stuff but yeah

464
00:18:44,390 --> 00:18:41,120
it's amazing just how close i can

465
00:18:45,350 --> 00:18:44,400
guess this yeah it is guessing it's not

466
00:18:53,510 --> 00:18:45,360
me

467
00:18:57,909 --> 00:18:53,520
oh shoot anyway and what about the noise

468
00:19:00,390 --> 00:18:57,919
the noise was started out low at first

469
00:19:01,830 --> 00:19:00,400
you know as travis is standing there

470
00:19:05,350 --> 00:19:01,840
okay

471
00:19:06,710 --> 00:19:05,360
and and the the noise was inaudible

472
00:19:08,950 --> 00:19:06,720
basically to begin with

473
00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:08,960
when we first moved it pulled up i mean

474
00:19:13,830 --> 00:19:11,440
it was silent and it wasn't moving

475
00:19:15,669 --> 00:19:13,840
but but the more it started to move the

476
00:19:18,630 --> 00:19:15,679
louder the sound got

477
00:19:19,990 --> 00:19:18,640
and it was a combination of of uh sounds

478
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:20,000
high-pitched sounds

479
00:19:24,230 --> 00:19:23,520
very low sounds sounds above the audible

480
00:19:27,510 --> 00:19:24,240
range

481
00:19:29,190 --> 00:19:27,520
and uh below it's the word they just

482
00:19:31,110 --> 00:19:29,200
felt like a rumble

483
00:19:32,789 --> 00:19:31,120
and it was powerful i mean it became

484
00:19:35,830 --> 00:19:32,799
powerful over a period of

485
00:19:36,710 --> 00:19:35,840
just seconds it became very powerful you

486
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:36,720
could feel this

487
00:19:40,870 --> 00:19:39,600
rumble and and i could feel my one hand

488
00:19:41,990 --> 00:19:40,880
was still on the steering wheel i could

489
00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:42,000
feel it through that

490
00:19:45,750 --> 00:19:44,880
i also feel it through my body and all

491
00:19:49,029 --> 00:19:45,760
the other guys

492
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:49,039
could feel that and you know

493
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:51,760
they talked about that later they didn't

494
00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:53,520
look nobody looked around at me at that

495
00:19:57,029 --> 00:19:54,880
moment to uh

496
00:19:58,070 --> 00:19:57,039
to you know express their feeling for

497
00:19:59,430 --> 00:19:58,080
that sound or their

498
00:20:01,350 --> 00:19:59,440
you know their concern for the sound or

499
00:20:02,950 --> 00:20:01,360
whatever but uh

500
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:02,960
i know they felt it because they all

501
00:20:08,630 --> 00:20:04,880
talked about it later

502
00:20:12,870 --> 00:20:08,640
and anyway this this thing

503
00:20:17,750 --> 00:20:12,880
started developing a kind of a uh a wine

504
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:19,909
uh they even that's not a very good

505
00:20:25,669 --> 00:20:22,400
description but it was like that okay

506
00:20:28,070 --> 00:20:25,679
yeah uh and

507
00:20:28,710 --> 00:20:28,080
along with this this rumble kept getting

508
00:20:31,270 --> 00:20:28,720
louder

509
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:31,280
and this high-pitched stuff that kind of

510
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:32,960
hurt our ears

511
00:20:40,390 --> 00:20:37,120
kept going and got louder and louder

512
00:20:40,950 --> 00:20:40,400
and finally i mean the guys in the truck

513
00:20:42,710 --> 00:20:40,960
even me

514
00:20:44,070 --> 00:20:42,720
started yelling for us get the hell away

515
00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:44,080
from there you know

516
00:20:48,070 --> 00:20:47,280
and he looked back once uh like and i

517
00:20:51,590 --> 00:20:48,080
could see this

518
00:20:55,350 --> 00:20:51,600
look of concern on his face

519
00:20:57,110 --> 00:20:55,360
and he uh crouched down there

520
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:57,120
there was a log sticking out of this

521
00:21:00,789 --> 00:20:58,559
brush pile

522
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,799
he crouched down sort of like to hide

523
00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:02,640
from that but but the log wasn't that

524
00:21:07,909 --> 00:21:04,080
big you know it wasn't that

525
00:21:09,270 --> 00:21:07,919
that large it was just like a reaction

526
00:21:10,950 --> 00:21:09,280
of somebody doing you know when they're

527
00:21:12,390 --> 00:21:10,960
when they get afraid they just do what

528
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:12,400
seems to be next

529
00:21:16,950 --> 00:21:15,360
so he crouched down there even though it

530
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:16,960
didn't give him the cover

531
00:21:21,029 --> 00:21:18,480
didn't give him any protection at all

532
00:21:24,230 --> 00:21:21,039
really although he did that

533
00:21:27,590 --> 00:21:24,240
and then he changed his mind he stood up

534
00:21:28,549 --> 00:21:27,600
and just as he stood up something came

535
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:28,559
out of that crap

536
00:21:32,549 --> 00:21:30,640
it's been described like many things

537
00:21:36,470 --> 00:21:32,559
we've even speculated on since but

538
00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:40,950
i think it was deliberate

539
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:43,029
yeah yeah i think i think travis does

540
00:21:47,270 --> 00:21:44,240
too i'm not no

541
00:21:48,390 --> 00:21:47,280
travis thinks actually when and i'm sure

542
00:21:50,230 --> 00:21:48,400
you've talked to him

543
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:50,240
about this but you know he thinks that

544
00:21:55,350 --> 00:21:52,960
he was actually rescued

545
00:21:56,950 --> 00:21:55,360
well yeah that's the possibility i i'm

546
00:22:00,070 --> 00:21:56,960
sure of that now

547
00:22:01,590 --> 00:22:00,080
share that now because you see this

548
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:01,600
this truck even though the one you were

549
00:22:04,789 --> 00:22:03,120
talking about beginning the show was

550
00:22:08,310 --> 00:22:04,799
noisy and like that

551
00:22:10,149 --> 00:22:08,320
this one was very quiet wow very quiet

552
00:22:11,590 --> 00:22:10,159
yes it wasn't international but it was

553
00:22:13,750 --> 00:22:11,600
very quiet

554
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:13,760
and it didn't quite bounce around as bad

555
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:15,039
as you said

556
00:22:20,710 --> 00:22:18,240
okay uh it did bounce okay

557
00:22:22,870 --> 00:22:20,720
but but we were going five miles an hour

558
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:22,880
you know and it was very quiet

559
00:22:27,990 --> 00:22:25,120
and so when we came around that corner i

560
00:22:31,590 --> 00:22:28,000
think we may have surprised them

561
00:22:35,110 --> 00:22:31,600
i really do i think we surprised them

562
00:22:38,710 --> 00:22:35,120
i'm almost certain of that um

563
00:22:41,590 --> 00:22:38,720
anyway because i just you know

564
00:22:46,149 --> 00:22:41,600
using using logic uh which is better for

565
00:22:53,909 --> 00:22:50,070
uh there's a possibility that

566
00:22:56,950 --> 00:22:53,919
this may have been all on purpose

567
00:22:57,990 --> 00:22:56,960
that is possible but i don't know

568
00:23:01,270 --> 00:22:58,000
anything about these

569
00:23:03,190 --> 00:23:01,280
uh entities uh travis doesn't either

570
00:23:06,830 --> 00:23:03,200
in fact none of us do those of us that

571
00:23:10,630 --> 00:23:08,549
uh yeah

572
00:23:12,630 --> 00:23:10,640
that's another thing here i am healthy

573
00:23:14,710 --> 00:23:12,640
i'm 73 years old

574
00:23:15,669 --> 00:23:14,720
i'm older than any of those other guys

575
00:23:18,950 --> 00:23:15,679
yeah

576
00:23:22,470 --> 00:23:18,960
and uh three of them have died

577
00:23:24,630 --> 00:23:22,480
uh you know dallas was the first one to

578
00:23:27,669 --> 00:23:24,640
die right

579
00:23:28,310 --> 00:23:27,679
uh no i think dwayne smith was oh okay

580
00:23:31,190 --> 00:23:28,320
but alan

581
00:23:33,029 --> 00:23:31,200
followed him like a year or so later

582
00:23:34,390 --> 00:23:33,039
both of those were a long time ago

583
00:23:37,110 --> 00:23:34,400
actually

584
00:23:38,149 --> 00:23:37,120
yeah wayne smith was like 10 or 12 years

585
00:23:46,230 --> 00:23:38,159
ago

586
00:23:49,110 --> 00:23:46,240
and uh ken peterson

587
00:23:50,149 --> 00:23:49,120
lived right here uh where i used to live

588
00:23:51,909 --> 00:23:50,159
down in show low

589
00:23:53,669 --> 00:23:51,919
uh i lived just further up the hill now

590
00:23:59,029 --> 00:23:53,679
but he lived uh

591
00:24:05,430 --> 00:24:03,190
a 40 42 foot uh travel trailer

592
00:24:07,190 --> 00:24:05,440
and uh he had it in a nice location

593
00:24:09,750 --> 00:24:07,200
which i helped him pick out

594
00:24:11,750 --> 00:24:09,760
and then and then one day uh here oh

595
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:11,760
gosh over four years ago

596
00:24:15,110 --> 00:24:14,159
he just disappeared the trailer and him

597
00:24:18,149 --> 00:24:15,120
both

598
00:24:21,029 --> 00:24:18,159
now i know i know that his sons he has

599
00:24:21,990 --> 00:24:21,039
four sons who all live in tucson they're

600
00:24:25,909 --> 00:24:22,000
half mexican

601
00:24:27,029 --> 00:24:25,919
okay uh i see i'm part mexican myself

602
00:24:30,149 --> 00:24:27,039
but anyway

603
00:24:31,990 --> 00:24:30,159
uh he he uh he just disappeared and

604
00:24:34,470 --> 00:24:32,000
and i had his phone number it would

605
00:24:35,430 --> 00:24:34,480
didn't work and he could call me but he

606
00:24:38,070 --> 00:24:35,440
didn't call me so

607
00:24:39,750 --> 00:24:38,080
i don't know what happened to him and i

608
00:24:43,110 --> 00:24:39,760
i tried calling his sons

609
00:24:45,190 --> 00:24:43,120
and uh nobody would answer me

610
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,200
so i don't know what happened to him and

611
00:24:49,510 --> 00:24:47,039
that was a i must say that was four and

612
00:24:52,549 --> 00:24:49,520
a half years ago about almost

613
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:52,559
so and we've been trying

614
00:24:56,950 --> 00:24:55,440
i i i haven't been in contact with his

615
00:25:00,549 --> 00:24:56,960
close relatives

616
00:25:02,230 --> 00:25:00,559
here in pine top and

617
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:02,240
they don't know they don't know what

618
00:25:05,269 --> 00:25:03,919
what in the world has happened to him

619
00:25:09,029 --> 00:25:05,279
they don't know anything about it

620
00:25:12,149 --> 00:25:09,039
um and these are relatives right i mean

621
00:25:14,630 --> 00:25:12,159
people who would know so at this point

622
00:25:17,350 --> 00:25:14,640
nobody knows what the heck happened to

623
00:25:19,590 --> 00:25:17,360
ken peterson

624
00:25:21,909 --> 00:25:19,600
and i'm sure he is if he's alive he's

625
00:25:23,990 --> 00:25:21,919
listening to my show

626
00:25:26,230 --> 00:25:24,000
he could be listening to the show now if

627
00:25:29,750 --> 00:25:26,240
he's still alive

628
00:25:32,230 --> 00:25:29,760
but no response of any kind

629
00:25:33,350 --> 00:25:32,240
do you think uh you know i've travis has

630
00:25:35,190 --> 00:25:33,360
told me that

631
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:35,200
um you know he walked away from this for

632
00:25:38,710 --> 00:25:37,440
a while because it it it just was really

633
00:25:40,870 --> 00:25:38,720
hard for him

634
00:25:42,710 --> 00:25:40,880
and uh do there are other people in the

635
00:25:43,350 --> 00:25:42,720
crew and i'll ask that of yourself as

636
00:25:45,669 --> 00:25:43,360
well

637
00:25:47,190 --> 00:25:45,679
um that want to walk away from this and

638
00:25:51,269 --> 00:25:47,200
and just let it

639
00:26:01,830 --> 00:25:54,830
well i never did walk away from it

640
00:26:07,190 --> 00:26:05,430
uh i don't know why

641
00:26:11,669 --> 00:26:07,200
why people well i've done a lot of

642
00:26:13,990 --> 00:26:11,679
things along the way okay

643
00:26:18,149 --> 00:26:14,000
and travis of course to this very day is

644
00:26:26,710 --> 00:26:22,549
so i don't know what else about it yeah

645
00:26:29,750 --> 00:26:26,720
yeah um all right so um

646
00:26:32,230 --> 00:26:29,760
does this thing kind of like uh

647
00:26:33,590 --> 00:26:32,240
starts to move and that's when the uh

648
00:26:36,870 --> 00:26:33,600
the ray comes out

649
00:26:38,470 --> 00:26:36,880
and actually uh knocks travis right

650
00:26:40,870 --> 00:26:38,480
i mean you saw him go did you actually

651
00:26:41,750 --> 00:26:40,880
personally see him like go flying like

652
00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:41,760
uh

653
00:26:48,630 --> 00:26:46,320
didn't exactly

654
00:26:50,070 --> 00:26:48,640
see the beam that hit him however this

655
00:26:51,190 --> 00:26:50,080
this drawing you have on the screen

656
00:26:54,390 --> 00:26:51,200
right now

657
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:54,400
that's that is my my painting and uh

658
00:26:59,510 --> 00:26:57,679
oh wow yeah yeah a lot of people think

659
00:27:01,190 --> 00:26:59,520
that's a photograph or something that

660
00:27:04,710 --> 00:27:01,200
paramount did

661
00:27:07,510 --> 00:27:04,720
but it's not so you're an artist

662
00:27:08,230 --> 00:27:07,520
yeah that isn't even the best uh uh

663
00:27:10,789 --> 00:27:08,240
picture

664
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:10,799
i just one thing that i sent you which

665
00:27:16,149 --> 00:27:12,000
is uh

666
00:27:19,269 --> 00:27:16,159
it's uh the one about uh pain okay

667
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:19,279
uh and it's cleverly written and all

668
00:27:22,710 --> 00:27:20,159
that stuff but

669
00:27:24,070 --> 00:27:22,720
but that is a better illustration that's

670
00:27:26,470 --> 00:27:24,080
actually the original

671
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:26,480
illustration that i sent you okay that

672
00:27:30,630 --> 00:27:27,440
one on the screen

673
00:27:33,990 --> 00:27:30,640
is uh i don't know it's uh

674
00:27:36,549 --> 00:27:34,000
deluded by uh passing back and forth

675
00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:36,559
or something it's like somebody took it

676
00:27:41,190 --> 00:27:37,840
off the cover of the book

677
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:41,200
okay yeah that probably is yeah okay

678
00:27:44,710 --> 00:27:43,360
so so that means that it's considerably

679
00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:44,720
reduced

680
00:27:51,190 --> 00:27:48,080
yeah yeah but the one that i sent you is

681
00:27:52,789 --> 00:27:51,200
very vivid and uh and that's what i

682
00:27:54,230 --> 00:27:52,799
that's what i call it i'll take a look

683
00:27:55,909 --> 00:27:54,240
for that because i didn't i did that

684
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:55,919
didn't download but i'll take a look

685
00:27:59,510 --> 00:27:58,960
anyway um so this thing this thing hits

686
00:28:02,789 --> 00:27:59,520
him

687
00:28:05,590 --> 00:28:02,799
he goes flying and

688
00:28:06,070 --> 00:28:05,600
was it like complete chaos at that

689
00:28:09,269 --> 00:28:06,080
moment

690
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:12,870
well it took me a few seconds i mean i

691
00:28:16,630 --> 00:28:14,720
had to turn the truck back on because i

692
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,640
had already turned it off

693
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:18,720
and i remember fumbling for the key and

694
00:28:20,710 --> 00:28:19,840
everything you know because i was

695
00:28:24,070 --> 00:28:20,720
already

696
00:28:27,350 --> 00:28:24,080
quite excited by that time and i

697
00:28:31,190 --> 00:28:27,360
i turned it on and

698
00:28:32,870 --> 00:28:31,200
i hesitated i thought

699
00:28:34,549 --> 00:28:32,880
what what's going on i mean i didn't

700
00:28:36,070 --> 00:28:34,559
know what's going on but travis looked

701
00:28:37,750 --> 00:28:36,080
as though he had been killed or hurt

702
00:28:41,750 --> 00:28:37,760
very badly

703
00:28:45,510 --> 00:28:41,760
i mean he hit the ground hard and

704
00:28:47,830 --> 00:28:45,520
and like his feet landed about

705
00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:47,840
approximately my lacks about ten foot

706
00:28:55,029 --> 00:28:52,549
from where he'd been standing and which

707
00:28:56,230 --> 00:28:55,039
mean means that uh his head actually

708
00:28:59,990 --> 00:28:56,240
ended up

709
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:00,000
because he's six foot one and a quarter

710
00:29:05,909 --> 00:29:03,760
his head actually ended back you know 16

711
00:29:07,590 --> 00:29:05,919
feet three inches or something from work

712
00:29:10,230 --> 00:29:07,600
from where he had been standing

713
00:29:11,669 --> 00:29:10,240
because that's the nobody's ever graphed

714
00:29:12,789 --> 00:29:11,679
it out before but i see it that way

715
00:29:15,190 --> 00:29:12,799
there you go there's the

716
00:29:16,549 --> 00:29:15,200
there's the actual picture yeah so yeah

717
00:29:18,230 --> 00:29:16,559
you can go up on that

718
00:29:19,750 --> 00:29:18,240
you'll see yeah well i i can't do it

719
00:29:22,950 --> 00:29:19,760
here but i'll figure out how to do that

720
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:22,960
all right yeah anyway um yeah that's the

721
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:24,840
original

722
00:29:30,070 --> 00:29:26,960
okay anyway

723
00:29:33,110 --> 00:29:30,080
what was your question again um so

724
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:33,120
uh yeah was there chaos ensued you know

725
00:29:35,669 --> 00:29:34,000
right after

726
00:29:37,909 --> 00:29:35,679
this happened you said you're fumbling

727
00:29:40,470 --> 00:29:37,919
for your keys uh

728
00:29:41,430 --> 00:29:40,480
yeah yeah even after i turned the truck

729
00:29:44,870 --> 00:29:41,440
back on

730
00:29:46,389 --> 00:29:44,880
i i hesitated a couple of seconds um

731
00:29:47,750 --> 00:29:46,399
but the guys were yelling at me get the

732
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:47,760
hell out of here get the hell out of

733
00:29:51,430 --> 00:29:48,320
here

734
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:51,440
you know i i took off and when i took

735
00:29:55,669 --> 00:29:52,480
off i took off

736
00:29:59,350 --> 00:29:55,679
fast because i was excited

737
00:30:01,430 --> 00:29:59,360
for me it was partly blind panic but

738
00:30:03,990 --> 00:30:01,440
it was a lot to do with those guys who

739
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:04,000
were way more panicked than i was

740
00:30:10,870 --> 00:30:07,600
i mean i was scared i i i admit that but

741
00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:10,880
sure i i took off down this down

742
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:14,000
that road which of course was uh you

743
00:30:19,750 --> 00:30:16,240
need to travel at five miles an hour to

744
00:30:20,230 --> 00:30:19,760
actually you know get down properly

745
00:30:22,549 --> 00:30:20,240
because

746
00:30:23,909 --> 00:30:22,559
there were these humps of dirt okay this

747
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:23,919
road had been closed

748
00:30:29,110 --> 00:30:27,520
uh about a year or so before

749
00:30:30,710 --> 00:30:29,120
you know when the logging was actually

750
00:30:33,269 --> 00:30:30,720
taking place in fact

751
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:33,279
we were still doing part of that but

752
00:30:36,549 --> 00:30:34,080
that's not a

753
00:30:37,990 --> 00:30:36,559
complicated issue i had three contracts

754
00:30:41,350 --> 00:30:38,000
going on the same ground

755
00:30:44,230 --> 00:30:41,360
okay and uh a lot of people

756
00:30:45,190 --> 00:30:44,240
especially phil class the guy who died

757
00:30:48,630 --> 00:30:45,200
finally in

758
00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:48,640
2003 i think it was

759
00:30:55,110 --> 00:30:51,840
he used to hound me uh terribly

760
00:30:56,070 --> 00:30:55,120
and that he always used the best he

761
00:30:58,149 --> 00:30:56,080
could

762
00:31:00,630 --> 00:30:58,159
to confuse people because that's what he

763
00:31:04,470 --> 00:31:03,909
yo this this really did happen and phil

764
00:31:06,870 --> 00:31:04,480
class

765
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:06,880
would make up things okay oh yeah and

766
00:31:10,870 --> 00:31:08,159
one of those things was

767
00:31:12,470 --> 00:31:10,880
uh he would say now this this contract

768
00:31:15,830 --> 00:31:12,480
that you had was way over

769
00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:15,840
over extended you know way over time

770
00:31:19,110 --> 00:31:18,080
yeah he developed the whole concept on

771
00:31:21,909 --> 00:31:19,120
that so i

772
00:31:23,029 --> 00:31:21,919
so i mailed mailed back i didn't have

773
00:31:25,430 --> 00:31:23,039
email at the time

774
00:31:26,710 --> 00:31:25,440
i mailed him back i said look well

775
00:31:28,149 --> 00:31:26,720
actually i talked to him on the phone

776
00:31:30,830 --> 00:31:28,159
about it too later

777
00:31:31,990 --> 00:31:30,840
because he called me all the time as

778
00:31:34,870 --> 00:31:32,000
well

779
00:31:36,630 --> 00:31:34,880
anyway i told him you know that wasn't

780
00:31:38,230 --> 00:31:36,640
the only contract i had yeah that

781
00:31:39,750 --> 00:31:38,240
contract was behind schedule

782
00:31:42,149 --> 00:31:39,760
and that's why we were working late at

783
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:42,159
night okay but there was two other

784
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:44,240
contracts on that same ground

785
00:31:47,830 --> 00:31:46,399
and that's that's the thing that he

786
00:31:49,990 --> 00:31:47,840
wouldn't he didn't understand

787
00:31:51,029 --> 00:31:50,000
and even after i told him he wouldn't he

788
00:31:56,070 --> 00:31:51,039
wouldn't acknowledge it

789
00:32:02,870 --> 00:31:59,590
yeah yeah we i took off and and

790
00:32:05,750 --> 00:32:02,880
i went down that road yeah

791
00:32:06,389 --> 00:32:05,760
in a in a hurry yeah just like in the

792
00:32:08,389 --> 00:32:06,399
movie

793
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:08,399
that is one of the accurate parts of the

794
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:09,919
movie i knocked

795
00:32:17,830 --> 00:32:14,399
mirrors off uh i banged into into trees

796
00:32:19,269 --> 00:32:17,840
and the guys guys are all bumping up and

797
00:32:21,110 --> 00:32:19,279
down they're just

798
00:32:22,389 --> 00:32:21,120
you know that very accurate part of the

799
00:32:25,509 --> 00:32:22,399
movie i mean

800
00:32:28,149 --> 00:32:25,519
very close to accurate anyway uh

801
00:32:28,630 --> 00:32:28,159
anyway visually anyway they changed the

802
00:32:31,190 --> 00:32:28,640
names

803
00:32:32,789 --> 00:32:31,200
all kinds of stuff but anyway uh i i

804
00:32:35,029 --> 00:32:32,799
stopped the truck about a quarter of a

805
00:32:37,029 --> 00:32:35,039
mile away because i thought my gosh

806
00:32:38,710 --> 00:32:37,039
you know even those guys are still

807
00:32:40,070 --> 00:32:38,720
yelling at me you know what the hell are

808
00:32:43,110 --> 00:32:40,080
you stopping for i said

809
00:32:45,669 --> 00:32:43,120
look we left him there we left him there

810
00:32:47,110 --> 00:32:45,679
yeah that was a stupid thing to do in

811
00:32:48,789 --> 00:32:47,120
the first place i mean we should have

812
00:32:51,830 --> 00:32:48,799
stayed there

813
00:32:54,870 --> 00:32:51,840
and so i said look

814
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:54,880
i'm i'm i'm gonna go back

815
00:32:58,789 --> 00:32:57,279
and and they they wouldn't uh they were

816
00:32:59,110 --> 00:32:58,799
they were still arguing they were still

817
00:33:02,470 --> 00:32:59,120
so

818
00:33:03,110 --> 00:33:02,480
upset that they uh they they just sat

819
00:33:05,110 --> 00:33:03,120
there i mean

820
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:05,120
they were very very loud at this time

821
00:33:08,950 --> 00:33:07,600
and uh

822
00:33:11,190 --> 00:33:08,960
i got out of the truck i set the

823
00:33:14,470 --> 00:33:11,200
emergency brake again i got out

824
00:33:16,710 --> 00:33:14,480
turned it off and

825
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:16,720
once i started getting out a couple of

826
00:33:20,389 --> 00:33:18,399
other guys well actually they all got

827
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:20,399
out eventually but

828
00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:22,080
man my mouth is dry i gotta get another

829
00:33:26,070 --> 00:33:24,159
drink here yeah

830
00:33:27,750 --> 00:33:26,080
um well while you're getting a drink um

831
00:33:28,389 --> 00:33:27,760
for those of you on youtube you can look

832
00:33:31,430 --> 00:33:28,399
at

833
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:31,440
um this is original artwork by um

834
00:33:34,789 --> 00:33:34,080
the person we're speaking with yeah mike

835
00:33:36,789 --> 00:33:34,799
rogers in

836
00:33:38,630 --> 00:33:36,799
i gotta tell you i'm an art appraiser

837
00:33:42,149 --> 00:33:38,640
and i'm also a painter and

838
00:33:44,710 --> 00:33:42,159
and uh i couldn't do that i couldn't do

839
00:33:46,789 --> 00:33:44,720
that to save my life that painting

840
00:33:49,590 --> 00:33:46,799
that's really nice yeah i actually

841
00:33:54,470 --> 00:33:52,789
for travis's last book uh

842
00:33:56,710 --> 00:33:54,480
the one that's called fire on the sky

843
00:33:59,590 --> 00:33:56,720
the walton experience

844
00:34:00,789 --> 00:33:59,600
yeah i did an illustration for his first

845
00:34:02,549 --> 00:34:00,799
book

846
00:34:04,830 --> 00:34:02,559
which by the way i was paid three times

847
00:34:08,550 --> 00:34:04,840
more for it than he got paid for the

848
00:34:11,589 --> 00:34:11,030
yeah because even even back in night i

849
00:34:15,669 --> 00:34:11,599
mean i

850
00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:15,679
i did those first illustrations in 1976

851
00:34:21,270 --> 00:34:18,800
and even though i hadn't developed my

852
00:34:24,310 --> 00:34:21,280
talent to the point it is now or even

853
00:34:30,230 --> 00:34:24,320
the point it was back in uh

854
00:34:33,430 --> 00:34:30,240
yeah 87 when that book came out okay

855
00:34:35,510 --> 00:34:33,440
i mean i i do things right now

856
00:34:37,109 --> 00:34:35,520
in fact you know the cgi stuff that you

857
00:34:38,389 --> 00:34:37,119
had on the beginning of your show

858
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:38,399
yeah throwing the little guys walking

859
00:34:44,550 --> 00:34:40,879
away i could do that even better than

860
00:34:45,669 --> 00:34:44,560
whoever it was i can do it better i i

861
00:34:48,149 --> 00:34:45,679
can animate

862
00:34:48,869 --> 00:34:48,159
like you wouldn't believe well i believe

863
00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:48,879
that after

864
00:34:53,109 --> 00:34:51,280
um after just seeing um this and a

865
00:34:56,149 --> 00:34:53,119
couple of other things you've done

866
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:56,159
pretty amazing yeah and uh i've done

867
00:35:01,750 --> 00:34:58,720
many illustrators you know i take uh

868
00:35:03,750 --> 00:35:01,760
photographs with my eyes i i call them i

869
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:03,760
snapshots okay

870
00:35:10,710 --> 00:35:07,520
and then i later developed them on my pc

871
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:10,720
and i have a laptop i even did one up

872
00:35:14,790 --> 00:35:13,760
in snowflakes and on a hill of the

873
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:14,800
universe of the

874
00:35:19,829 --> 00:35:17,839
galaxy okay that's a a common part of

875
00:35:21,349 --> 00:35:19,839
the galaxy that you can see

876
00:35:24,630 --> 00:35:21,359
in the illustration it's a little blown

877
00:35:27,109 --> 00:35:24,640
up no i didn't i didn't send you that

878
00:35:28,390 --> 00:35:27,119
this isn't one you've done no i didn't

879
00:35:30,470 --> 00:35:28,400
no i didn't do that

880
00:35:31,750 --> 00:35:30,480
oh okay i was trying to find the one you

881
00:35:33,430 --> 00:35:31,760
did yeah

882
00:35:34,950 --> 00:35:33,440
if i'd have done that it would have been

883
00:35:37,349 --> 00:35:34,960
i didn't send you much

884
00:35:38,230 --> 00:35:37,359
there's a picture there uh an original

885
00:35:40,870 --> 00:35:38,240
picture of the

886
00:35:42,710 --> 00:35:40,880
alien okay this alien girl that travis

887
00:35:45,430 --> 00:35:42,720
described

888
00:35:47,190 --> 00:35:45,440
hmm okay well we don't need to focus on

889
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:47,200
that i just uh i just thought i'd

890
00:35:52,630 --> 00:35:50,400
throw that in there okay

891
00:35:53,670 --> 00:35:52,640
so yeah i see so many things on the on

892
00:35:56,069 --> 00:35:53,680
my periphery that

893
00:35:57,750 --> 00:35:56,079
i just it's hard for me not to go off on

894
00:36:00,630 --> 00:35:57,760
a tangent very sure

895
00:36:01,510 --> 00:36:00,640
i get it i get it so um you drive about

896
00:36:03,109 --> 00:36:01,520
a quarter of a mile

897
00:36:05,270 --> 00:36:03,119
you stop and there's still a lot of

898
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:05,280
ruckus going on and

899
00:36:09,750 --> 00:36:08,079
people wanting you to keep going i i can

900
00:36:11,190 --> 00:36:09,760
i can't even imagine what

901
00:36:13,430 --> 00:36:11,200
must have been going through your head

902
00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:13,440
about the responsibility you had first

903
00:36:18,950 --> 00:36:15,520
of all for your crew and their safety

904
00:36:21,670 --> 00:36:18,960
and then uh what should you do next and

905
00:36:22,550 --> 00:36:21,680
and fear all mixed into one you know and

906
00:36:23,990 --> 00:36:22,560
what are you what are you

907
00:36:25,829 --> 00:36:24,000
what are you gonna do you know in the

908
00:36:26,470 --> 00:36:25,839
movie uh you know i mean we could just

909
00:36:29,510 --> 00:36:26,480
take

910
00:36:30,790 --> 00:36:29,520
and i i could just say okay we saw the

911
00:36:31,990 --> 00:36:30,800
movie what happened in the movie and

912
00:36:33,589 --> 00:36:32,000
what really happened

913
00:36:35,109 --> 00:36:33,599
you know what were the differences

914
00:36:37,109 --> 00:36:35,119
because i know you didn't go to

915
00:36:38,630 --> 00:36:37,119
the caf i mean the i can't remember what

916
00:36:41,270 --> 00:36:38,640
the restaurant was called

917
00:36:41,750 --> 00:36:41,280
um in reality you did something else but

918
00:36:43,990 --> 00:36:41,760
so

919
00:36:44,950 --> 00:36:44,000
let's let's move on from there you you

920
00:36:49,589 --> 00:36:44,960
you

921
00:36:51,589 --> 00:36:49,599
hanging there yeah i know

922
00:36:53,030 --> 00:36:51,599
i get out of the truck you know yeah and

923
00:36:55,910 --> 00:36:53,040
what i was trying to say is right there

924
00:36:57,670 --> 00:36:55,920
before i got off on the tangent

925
00:36:58,950 --> 00:36:57,680
that's all right me and a couple of the

926
00:37:01,030 --> 00:36:58,960
guys look back

927
00:37:02,150 --> 00:37:01,040
i mean they i look back and they saw me

928
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:02,160
looking back

929
00:37:06,150 --> 00:37:04,720
and we saw a light even though we were a

930
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:06,160
quarter of a mile away we couldn't

931
00:37:08,790 --> 00:37:06,640
really

932
00:37:11,349 --> 00:37:08,800
see it all that clearly but we saw a

933
00:37:13,990 --> 00:37:11,359
light lift up through the trees

934
00:37:16,150 --> 00:37:14,000
and streak away to the northeast i mean

935
00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:16,160
like in a blur

936
00:37:19,510 --> 00:37:18,960
and from that i knew that this thing was

937
00:37:21,990 --> 00:37:19,520
gone

938
00:37:22,950 --> 00:37:22,000
okay i didn't know what travis's fate

939
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:22,960
was yet

940
00:37:27,990 --> 00:37:25,920
but um it left it gave me i mean i

941
00:37:29,510 --> 00:37:28,000
already wasn't just quite as scared as

942
00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:29,520
panicked as they were

943
00:37:33,109 --> 00:37:31,599
they were they were beyond imagination

944
00:37:35,270 --> 00:37:33,119
as far as panic is concerned they were

945
00:37:37,270 --> 00:37:35,280
out of their heads

946
00:37:39,270 --> 00:37:37,280
and they were all yelling and arguing

947
00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:39,280
with each other

948
00:37:47,109 --> 00:37:42,320
uh one of them i think steve

949
00:37:50,550 --> 00:37:47,119
said uh no no what steve was it was like

950
00:37:52,550 --> 00:37:50,560
dwayne i think said uh

951
00:37:53,670 --> 00:37:52,560
he was disintegrated or something like

952
00:37:55,349 --> 00:37:53,680
that

953
00:37:56,950 --> 00:37:55,359
i have to think just for a second

954
00:38:01,109 --> 00:37:56,960
remember exactly what they said

955
00:38:04,550 --> 00:38:03,109
they were they were very excited they

956
00:38:07,750 --> 00:38:04,560
were just talking

957
00:38:09,109 --> 00:38:07,760
crazy stuff and uh i mean they were

958
00:38:11,670 --> 00:38:09,119
completely confused

959
00:38:12,870 --> 00:38:11,680
i mean i was confused but not quite that

960
00:38:14,710 --> 00:38:12,880
confused but anyway

961
00:38:16,069 --> 00:38:14,720
i said look guys we gotta go back we

962
00:38:18,310 --> 00:38:16,079
gotta go back

963
00:38:19,510 --> 00:38:18,320
i mean i know we've just seen this thing

964
00:38:21,750 --> 00:38:19,520
raise up you know

965
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:21,760
this light rays up i knew it was a

966
00:38:25,910 --> 00:38:22,880
little safer to go back

967
00:38:28,790 --> 00:38:25,920
i knew the thing was gone okay

968
00:38:31,109 --> 00:38:28,800
so it wasn't like entirely bravery but

969
00:38:32,390 --> 00:38:31,119
that we went back i mean

970
00:38:34,310 --> 00:38:32,400
i didn't want to leave in the first

971
00:38:37,030 --> 00:38:34,320
place but

972
00:38:37,430 --> 00:38:37,040
everybody was reacting so so strongly

973
00:38:40,470 --> 00:38:37,440
that

974
00:38:42,470 --> 00:38:40,480
i had to i mean uh i mean

975
00:38:44,870 --> 00:38:42,480
five guys in that truck are all yelling

976
00:38:48,150 --> 00:38:44,880
at me to leave you know

977
00:38:50,630 --> 00:38:48,160
and of course you know i'm their boss so

978
00:38:51,510 --> 00:38:50,640
i've got to kind of go with their flow

979
00:38:55,990 --> 00:38:51,520
right

980
00:38:57,430 --> 00:38:56,000
yeah yeah so i said look i'm going back

981
00:38:59,430 --> 00:38:57,440
you can either stand here by the side of

982
00:38:59,990 --> 00:38:59,440
the road or or you can go with me but

983
00:39:03,589 --> 00:39:00,000
i'm going

984
00:39:05,829 --> 00:39:03,599
back well just within seconds

985
00:39:07,510 --> 00:39:05,839
i mean because i got back in the truck

986
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:07,520
and then they all piled in

987
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:10,720
right after and i couldn't

988
00:39:15,109 --> 00:39:13,520
uh i was pointed the other at the other

989
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:15,119
direction at the time

990
00:39:19,030 --> 00:39:17,040
and we were like i stopped because there

991
00:39:20,870 --> 00:39:19,040
was a hump of dirt there that

992
00:39:22,950 --> 00:39:20,880
i thought it was one of those it was a

993
00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:22,960
particularly bad hump

994
00:39:26,710 --> 00:39:24,800
that i had to go way around the right

995
00:39:30,230 --> 00:39:26,720
side to get around and everything

996
00:39:31,589 --> 00:39:30,240
and so so when i left i couldn't just

997
00:39:33,829 --> 00:39:31,599
turn around right there because there

998
00:39:35,990 --> 00:39:33,839
wasn't room anyway i went ahead

999
00:39:37,589 --> 00:39:36,000
on up in fact i had to go all the way up

1000
00:39:39,030 --> 00:39:37,599
to the rim road which was like a hundred

1001
00:39:41,109 --> 00:39:39,040
yards away

1002
00:39:42,790 --> 00:39:41,119
and then one the guy says let's chase

1003
00:39:45,510 --> 00:39:42,800
that because uh right at the time

1004
00:39:46,550 --> 00:39:45,520
a pickup full of apparently hunters went

1005
00:39:48,550 --> 00:39:46,560
by

1006
00:39:50,390 --> 00:39:48,560
and they want to get guns we got to get

1007
00:39:51,990 --> 00:39:50,400
some guns let's chase those guys down

1008
00:39:55,589 --> 00:39:52,000
and get some guns

1009
00:40:01,109 --> 00:39:58,790
so at their prompting i mean they all of

1010
00:40:02,950 --> 00:40:01,119
them wanted me to do this so i went down

1011
00:40:05,349 --> 00:40:02,960
and you know i didn't go very far and i

1012
00:40:08,390 --> 00:40:05,359
said this nuts this is nuts guys

1013
00:40:08,790 --> 00:40:08,400
we got to go back okay so we're on the

1014
00:40:14,790 --> 00:40:08,800
wide

1015
00:40:17,750 --> 00:40:14,800
there and we went back

1016
00:40:18,950 --> 00:40:17,760
and we went back very slowly okay we

1017
00:40:28,390 --> 00:40:18,960
weren't gone

1018
00:40:31,990 --> 00:40:30,470
it was like 15 minutes later okay less

1019
00:40:34,870 --> 00:40:32,000
than 15 minutes we went late

1020
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:34,880
back and uh we went back very slowly

1021
00:40:38,710 --> 00:40:35,680
once we got

1022
00:40:39,670 --> 00:40:38,720
near the site and very slowly and when

1023
00:40:42,870 --> 00:40:39,680
we got there

1024
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,880
i pulled the truck up in the clearing as

1025
00:40:47,750 --> 00:40:44,960
far as i could and shown the headlights

1026
00:40:49,030 --> 00:40:47,760
pretty much on the pile or where he was

1027
00:40:52,470 --> 00:40:49,040
standing

1028
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,480
and he wasn't there okay he wasn't there

1029
00:40:56,710 --> 00:40:55,200
uh did you yell for him did you think

1030
00:40:58,630 --> 00:40:56,720
you know me

1031
00:41:01,109 --> 00:40:58,640
i mean i i committed a guy out of the

1032
00:41:04,550 --> 00:41:01,119
truck and so did everybody else

1033
00:41:07,430 --> 00:41:04,560
didn't want to don't they and

1034
00:41:08,309 --> 00:41:07,440
they converged you know around the truck

1035
00:41:10,550 --> 00:41:08,319
and met me

1036
00:41:11,990 --> 00:41:10,560
out there in the headlights of my truck

1037
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:12,000
and uh

1038
00:41:16,710 --> 00:41:14,720
and everybody was just almost arm and

1039
00:41:19,030 --> 00:41:16,720
arm

1040
00:41:21,030 --> 00:41:19,040
as close behind me as they could get as

1041
00:41:23,589 --> 00:41:21,040
close to me as they could get

1042
00:41:24,150 --> 00:41:23,599
and uh and we we walked up up through

1043
00:41:26,870 --> 00:41:24,160
there

1044
00:41:27,510 --> 00:41:26,880
you know i i could make out that travis

1045
00:41:30,950 --> 00:41:27,520
had left

1046
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:30,960
footprints intermittently

1047
00:41:35,190 --> 00:41:33,599
in the bare space this area had been

1048
00:41:36,630 --> 00:41:35,200
that pile existed because there had been

1049
00:41:39,670 --> 00:41:36,640
a bulldozer in there

1050
00:41:41,750 --> 00:41:39,680
and and the part of doing that uh piling

1051
00:41:43,109 --> 00:41:41,760
with the bulldozer they've scraped up

1052
00:41:44,150 --> 00:41:43,119
they've scraped the ground in many

1053
00:41:47,030 --> 00:41:44,160
places

1054
00:41:48,069 --> 00:41:47,040
uh so even though new pine needles fall

1055
00:41:49,990 --> 00:41:48,079
all the time

1056
00:41:51,190 --> 00:41:50,000
there was still these basically bare

1057
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:51,200
places where

1058
00:41:56,150 --> 00:41:53,200
footprints would exist and i could see

1059
00:42:02,950 --> 00:41:59,430
those were the only footprints okay

1060
00:42:04,470 --> 00:42:02,960
those are the only footprints but we

1061
00:42:07,270 --> 00:42:04,480
you know we circled around there for a

1062
00:42:09,589 --> 00:42:07,280
while and we widened the circle until it

1063
00:42:11,030 --> 00:42:09,599
go out got out in the trees beyond the

1064
00:42:14,150 --> 00:42:11,040
clearing

1065
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:14,160
uh which is hard to do because

1066
00:42:18,309 --> 00:42:16,400
it was still dark we had one flashlight

1067
00:42:20,870 --> 00:42:18,319
one flashlight wow

1068
00:42:22,309 --> 00:42:20,880
and i i wasn't even the one holding it

1069
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:22,319
both the time i did

1070
00:42:29,270 --> 00:42:26,079
some of the time i think john or or

1071
00:42:30,230 --> 00:42:29,280
or alan maybe al yeah held it for a

1072
00:42:36,309 --> 00:42:30,240
while

1073
00:42:44,069 --> 00:42:40,950
i get a drink very quickly at one point

1074
00:42:47,190 --> 00:42:44,079
i realized you know i broke down

1075
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:47,200
okay i failed on my knees

1076
00:42:53,910 --> 00:42:51,440
and everybody has taken that as uh

1077
00:42:55,190 --> 00:42:53,920
crying because i was over overwhelmed

1078
00:42:58,550 --> 00:42:55,200
trials being gone that

1079
00:43:00,790 --> 00:42:58,560
wasn't what i was emotional about

1080
00:43:02,390 --> 00:43:00,800
i was emotional because we didn't find

1081
00:43:05,670 --> 00:43:02,400
him sure

1082
00:43:06,950 --> 00:43:05,680
yeah i was i was actually glad that he

1083
00:43:09,030 --> 00:43:06,960
was gone

1084
00:43:10,069 --> 00:43:09,040
because i could tell you i could tell

1085
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:10,079
that what i

1086
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:12,560
expected or or at least what i imagine

1087
00:43:16,630 --> 00:43:13,119
might

1088
00:43:20,470 --> 00:43:16,640
laying there

1089
00:43:23,750 --> 00:43:20,480
yep well he wasn't there

1090
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:23,760
and me being pretty logical okay even at

1091
00:43:29,190 --> 00:43:25,520
the time

1092
00:43:31,750 --> 00:43:29,200
i uh i realized you know he must be okay

1093
00:43:33,349 --> 00:43:31,760
if he was hurt they took him and it all

1094
00:43:36,710 --> 00:43:33,359
plays into it i mean

1095
00:43:38,230 --> 00:43:36,720
it all makes sense uh in that respect i

1096
00:43:42,309 --> 00:43:38,240
mean

1097
00:43:45,510 --> 00:43:42,319
they had to have taken him for a reason

1098
00:43:46,870 --> 00:43:45,520
and since he was very possibly dead or

1099
00:43:49,990 --> 00:43:46,880
close to it

1100
00:43:51,510 --> 00:43:50,000
they took him to fix him i figured all

1101
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:51,520
that out right there at the moment at

1102
00:43:56,790 --> 00:43:53,200
the time

1103
00:43:58,870 --> 00:43:56,800
and since then uh

1104
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,880
and did you tell did you talk to travis

1105
00:44:03,990 --> 00:44:00,560
about that at some point

1106
00:44:07,030 --> 00:44:04,000
i've talked to him about a lot yeah

1107
00:44:07,990 --> 00:44:07,040
uh you know i'll admit that today we

1108
00:44:10,870 --> 00:44:08,000
don't talk much

1109
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:10,880
about that incident in fact we talk

1110
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:13,680
politics more than anything

1111
00:44:19,190 --> 00:44:16,880
yeah you know one thing one thing people

1112
00:44:21,030 --> 00:44:19,200
may not understand if they never had a

1113
00:44:22,630 --> 00:44:21,040
conversation with travis he's a very

1114
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:22,640
intelligent guy

1115
00:44:27,670 --> 00:44:25,119
and he's he's very interesting and you

1116
00:44:31,030 --> 00:44:27,680
know there's there's a lot to travis

1117
00:44:33,750 --> 00:44:31,040
he certainly is yeah yeah uh i don't

1118
00:44:34,150 --> 00:44:33,760
i he he doesn't seem to be quite as in

1119
00:44:35,990 --> 00:44:34,160
fact

1120
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:36,000
introspective as i am he's never

1121
00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:38,240
developed any artistic talent

1122
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:41,119
he does play the guitar now yeah but not

1123
00:44:51,270 --> 00:44:48,470
guitar virtue also but uh yeah

1124
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,280
travis is extremely intelligent yeah but

1125
00:44:57,270 --> 00:44:53,280
but he thinks

1126
00:45:01,190 --> 00:44:59,430
okay and that's a whole different

1127
00:45:04,230 --> 00:45:01,200
subject okay

1128
00:45:06,309 --> 00:45:04,240
uh you know art and stuff like that

1129
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:06,319
is is three-dimensional it's it's it's

1130
00:45:09,670 --> 00:45:07,280
right hemispheric

1131
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:09,680
it's on the right side of your brain and

1132
00:45:12,150 --> 00:45:11,119
two-dimensional thinking is on your left

1133
00:45:13,589 --> 00:45:12,160
side you're right which means you're

1134
00:45:14,550 --> 00:45:13,599
very good with speaking and very good

1135
00:45:17,510 --> 00:45:14,560
with words

1136
00:45:18,470 --> 00:45:17,520
i am but i am also extremely right

1137
00:45:20,790 --> 00:45:18,480
hemispherical

1138
00:45:22,069 --> 00:45:20,800
because i can do just about everything

1139
00:45:25,270 --> 00:45:22,079
on the right and just about everything

1140
00:45:32,230 --> 00:45:28,550
so getting back to um

1141
00:45:34,069 --> 00:45:32,240
getting back to you seem to know right

1142
00:45:37,270 --> 00:45:34,079
at that time that they may have

1143
00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:37,280
taken him to save him yeah

1144
00:45:40,950 --> 00:45:38,960
right there and did you keep that to

1145
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:40,960
yourself

1146
00:45:45,190 --> 00:45:44,160
at the time i did yeah yeah because i

1147
00:45:47,910 --> 00:45:45,200
wasn't certain

1148
00:45:48,309 --> 00:45:47,920
i just had that feeling strong you know

1149
00:45:50,309 --> 00:45:48,319
and

1150
00:45:51,829 --> 00:45:50,319
the reason i normally don't even think

1151
00:45:53,910 --> 00:45:51,839
in words i normally don't even think in

1152
00:45:57,109 --> 00:45:53,920
words i have to translate back and

1153
00:45:59,990 --> 00:45:57,119
back and forth from in order to speak

1154
00:46:01,349 --> 00:46:00,000
i have to pull it out of because i don't

1155
00:46:03,510 --> 00:46:01,359
think in words i mean that's the only

1156
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:03,520
way i can explain it really

1157
00:46:10,710 --> 00:46:06,160
yeah but when you were interrogated is

1158
00:46:14,550 --> 00:46:12,870
well the interrogators weren't after

1159
00:46:16,230 --> 00:46:14,560
that if you're talking about the lie

1160
00:46:18,470 --> 00:46:16,240
detector guy or the or the

1161
00:46:20,230 --> 00:46:18,480
sheriff yeah the sheriff and they they

1162
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:20,240
never asked questions like that they

1163
00:46:23,990 --> 00:46:21,200
didn't

1164
00:46:25,270 --> 00:46:24,000
the the the scare the sheriff was a

1165
00:46:28,790 --> 00:46:25,280
rather odd fellow

1166
00:46:31,030 --> 00:46:28,800
you know marlon gillespie uh

1167
00:46:31,829 --> 00:46:31,040
later on he told me that he had an

1168
00:46:35,750 --> 00:46:31,839
experience

1169
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:35,760
of his own and his son who died

1170
00:46:41,430 --> 00:46:38,960
in an accident um anyway

1171
00:46:43,030 --> 00:46:41,440
i'm trying not to get off the track here

1172
00:46:46,470 --> 00:46:43,040
um

1173
00:46:49,190 --> 00:46:46,480
where the hell was i okay

1174
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:49,200
the sheriff okay yeah i go off on tabs

1175
00:46:52,790 --> 00:46:51,119
but guess what i always come back around

1176
00:46:55,990 --> 00:46:52,800
and meet it on the other

1177
00:46:58,950 --> 00:46:56,000
hand anyway uh

1178
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,960
martin gillespie uh was a believer but

1179
00:47:04,150 --> 00:47:01,040
he wouldn't say that at the time either

1180
00:47:07,349 --> 00:47:04,160
he told me that later okay yeah

1181
00:47:08,150 --> 00:47:07,359
at the time they just acted like this

1182
00:47:10,710 --> 00:47:08,160
didn't happen

1183
00:47:12,470 --> 00:47:10,720
it was murdered whatever you know and he

1184
00:47:14,630 --> 00:47:12,480
had a deputy sheriff there who wasn't

1185
00:47:16,550 --> 00:47:14,640
especially bright but he uh

1186
00:47:18,309 --> 00:47:16,560
he he just didn't believe it at all and

1187
00:47:19,829 --> 00:47:18,319
he said a number of things to us even

1188
00:47:21,510 --> 00:47:19,839
out the site when they were searching

1189
00:47:24,790 --> 00:47:21,520
for travis

1190
00:47:26,470 --> 00:47:24,800
uh he was extremely skeptical he said

1191
00:47:28,790 --> 00:47:26,480
ridiculous things actually

1192
00:47:29,670 --> 00:47:28,800
and the guys are there remember that ken

1193
00:47:34,390 --> 00:47:29,680
peterson

1194
00:47:37,990 --> 00:47:34,400
he was no longer around to talk to you

1195
00:47:41,670 --> 00:47:38,000
yeah john is john was there

1196
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:44,309
i i think and and i think we kind of

1197
00:47:48,390 --> 00:47:45,359
skipped a little bit

1198
00:47:51,750 --> 00:47:48,400
so um if we could just just to get

1199
00:47:51,990 --> 00:47:51,760
a more accurate of a account whose idea

1200
00:47:54,150 --> 00:47:52,000
was

1201
00:47:56,549 --> 00:47:54,160
it to actually call the police to begin

1202
00:47:59,589 --> 00:47:56,559
with that was ken peterson

1203
00:48:00,710 --> 00:47:59,599
ah and and how did that go how did that

1204
00:48:03,910 --> 00:48:00,720
whole situation i mean it was

1205
00:48:05,589 --> 00:48:03,920
actually my idea but i didn't want to

1206
00:48:06,950 --> 00:48:05,599
call because i didn't i didn't think

1207
00:48:09,990 --> 00:48:06,960
they'd believe it

1208
00:48:11,750 --> 00:48:10,000
yeah i didn't want to fumble around with

1209
00:48:15,109 --> 00:48:11,760
that conversation

1210
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:15,119
so so ken says well i'll do it and so

1211
00:48:18,710 --> 00:48:17,520
when we stopped the truck and of course

1212
00:48:22,230 --> 00:48:18,720
ken will tell you or

1213
00:48:23,430 --> 00:48:22,240
did used to tell people that i was just

1214
00:48:26,470 --> 00:48:23,440
too upset

1215
00:48:28,710 --> 00:48:26,480
well i wasn't that upset i just

1216
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:28,720
didn't i didn't think they'd believe us

1217
00:48:32,230 --> 00:48:29,599
i mean i i knew

1218
00:48:33,270 --> 00:48:32,240
people by that time i knew that i knew

1219
00:48:36,870 --> 00:48:33,280
marlon gillespie

1220
00:48:37,990 --> 00:48:36,880
personally i knew the the chuck ellison

1221
00:48:40,710 --> 00:48:38,000
who lived in heber

1222
00:48:41,990 --> 00:48:40,720
because i lived in hebrew not too long

1223
00:48:44,470 --> 00:48:42,000
before that

1224
00:48:46,069 --> 00:48:44,480
so i knew him and and i knew that they

1225
00:48:48,390 --> 00:48:46,079
were people who just

1226
00:48:49,910 --> 00:48:48,400
wouldn't like i mean i knew it for two

1227
00:48:52,710 --> 00:48:49,920
reasons because i knew them personally

1228
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:52,720
and i knew and i knew just in general

1229
00:48:56,549 --> 00:48:53,040
that

1230
00:48:57,589 --> 00:48:56,559
uh you know they have to maintain a hard

1231
00:49:00,870 --> 00:48:57,599
line the first thing they

1232
00:49:03,270 --> 00:49:00,880
are is suspicious and so

1233
00:49:05,510 --> 00:49:03,280
mm-hmm i didn't want to deal with that

1234
00:49:09,349 --> 00:49:05,520
and uh

1235
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:12,470
yeah so ken was the one that did it

1236
00:49:17,430 --> 00:49:14,960
and uh so did they did they just come

1237
00:49:21,109 --> 00:49:17,440
right away

1238
00:49:21,589 --> 00:49:21,119
uh no uh ellison did he was there within

1239
00:49:26,630 --> 00:49:21,599
uh

1240
00:49:28,549 --> 00:49:26,640
but but ken didn't tell them about the

1241
00:49:29,270 --> 00:49:28,559
ufo incident right he didn't tell him

1242
00:49:31,190 --> 00:49:29,280
about the

1243
00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:31,200
what happened he just said we got a

1244
00:49:36,309 --> 00:49:33,280
missing man okay

1245
00:49:37,270 --> 00:49:36,319
so he even has his comments a little you

1246
00:49:41,349 --> 00:49:37,280
know

1247
00:49:41,990 --> 00:49:41,359
uh yeah ellison got there and we told it

1248
00:49:43,910 --> 00:49:42,000
all to him

1249
00:49:46,150 --> 00:49:43,920
yeah that's uh that's more english be

1250
00:49:47,030 --> 00:49:46,160
right there yeah martin gillespie died

1251
00:49:50,069 --> 00:49:47,040
here just a

1252
00:49:53,270 --> 00:49:50,079
few months ago yeah i saw that yeah but

1253
00:49:55,030 --> 00:49:53,280
uh yeah

1254
00:49:56,710 --> 00:49:55,040
uh hard not to get off the track here

1255
00:49:57,990 --> 00:49:56,720
there's so much there yeah and i keep

1256
00:50:00,790 --> 00:49:58,000
pulling up pictures it's half

1257
00:50:01,430 --> 00:50:00,800
my fault that's okay i mean you want to

1258
00:50:03,910 --> 00:50:01,440
be visual

1259
00:50:05,589 --> 00:50:03,920
you know yeah i wish i could on my show

1260
00:50:09,829 --> 00:50:05,599
that's a whole different matter

1261
00:50:13,270 --> 00:50:09,839
yeah yeah anyway uh

1262
00:50:16,230 --> 00:50:13,280
yeah ken can't call them they came

1263
00:50:17,349 --> 00:50:16,240
uh and uh sheriff gillespie came down

1264
00:50:19,910 --> 00:50:17,359
from holberg

1265
00:50:21,589 --> 00:50:19,920
which is rather unusual for a sheriff to

1266
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:21,599
do

1267
00:50:24,950 --> 00:50:23,280
in in the middle of the night well not

1268
00:50:27,990 --> 00:50:24,960
the middle of the night but that late at

1269
00:50:30,790 --> 00:50:28,000
night because it was like uh

1270
00:50:32,230 --> 00:50:30,800
i don't know 7 30 8 o'clock by that time

1271
00:50:35,670 --> 00:50:32,240
and the sun had set

1272
00:50:37,510 --> 00:50:35,680
at least an hour before and of course

1273
00:50:39,589 --> 00:50:37,520
gillespie would be a guy who would

1274
00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:39,599
normally do business from his office

1275
00:50:42,630 --> 00:50:40,400
right

1276
00:50:44,790 --> 00:50:42,640
during the during the daylight hours he

1277
00:50:46,790 --> 00:50:44,800
would come out on an emergency like that

1278
00:50:49,670 --> 00:50:46,800
if it was a real emergency but somebody

1279
00:50:52,069 --> 00:50:49,680
says uh we got a missing guy okay

1280
00:50:53,349 --> 00:50:52,079
that's all cause that's all uh ellison

1281
00:50:56,309 --> 00:50:53,359
could tell him

1282
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:56,319
yeah so him coming down there all the

1283
00:51:00,470 --> 00:50:57,200
way to heber

1284
00:51:01,750 --> 00:51:00,480
which is like a 45 mile drive from

1285
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:01,760
holbrook where where

1286
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:05,359
gillespie lived is rather odd you know

1287
00:51:10,069 --> 00:51:07,520
i mean it just was wasn't didn't make

1288
00:51:13,349 --> 00:51:10,079
sense uh in that respect so

1289
00:51:16,470 --> 00:51:13,359
but he did he came there and uh he was

1290
00:51:17,270 --> 00:51:16,480
a active skeptical a gillespie active

1291
00:51:21,430 --> 00:51:17,280
skeptical

1292
00:51:24,950 --> 00:51:21,440
and he had his deputy wing uh copeland

1293
00:51:26,870 --> 00:51:24,960
ken copeland who uh was like i said he

1294
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:26,880
was extremely skeptical

1295
00:51:31,990 --> 00:51:30,079
and uh and there is a departure from

1296
00:51:33,910 --> 00:51:32,000
here from the movie

1297
00:51:35,349 --> 00:51:33,920
because we didn't cert yeah we've

1298
00:51:36,069 --> 00:51:35,359
searched the next day and in fact there

1299
00:51:40,710 --> 00:51:36,079
was a four day

1300
00:51:48,710 --> 00:51:44,630
all three really yes all three of these

1301
00:51:51,589 --> 00:51:48,720
and three of us me and two other guys

1302
00:51:54,390 --> 00:51:51,599
went up the hill again to look for

1303
00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:57,829
and uh the skeptic okay who was driving

1304
00:52:02,390 --> 00:52:00,480
this four wheel drive vehicle

1305
00:52:03,510 --> 00:52:02,400
uh he kept looking for prints along the

1306
00:52:05,829 --> 00:52:03,520
road couldn't

1307
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,839
find anything and he was claiming on the

1308
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,200
way up there he's going

1309
00:52:11,990 --> 00:52:09,839
he he was the best tracker in in in the

1310
00:52:13,430 --> 00:52:12,000
state of arizona

1311
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:13,440
you know that's something you expect

1312
00:52:15,750 --> 00:52:15,200
from a skeptic somebody somebody like

1313
00:52:19,030 --> 00:52:15,760
him you know

1314
00:52:22,710 --> 00:52:19,040
say the best tracker ever

1315
00:52:23,430 --> 00:52:22,720
yeah yeah i mean he said it several

1316
00:52:27,349 --> 00:52:23,440
different ways

1317
00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:27,359
uh but he he may have been i don't know

1318
00:52:30,790 --> 00:52:29,839
but he uh he couldn't find the track he

1319
00:52:34,309 --> 00:52:30,800
couldn't find anything

1320
00:52:35,990 --> 00:52:34,319
we saw at the clearing and looked around

1321
00:52:37,349 --> 00:52:36,000
and he could see the same footprints

1322
00:52:39,829 --> 00:52:37,359
that i did

1323
00:52:42,470 --> 00:52:39,839
lean up there but he did he just shook

1324
00:52:44,630 --> 00:52:42,480
it off he didn't you didn't care

1325
00:52:46,470 --> 00:52:44,640
which is what skeptics do right yeah

1326
00:52:48,390 --> 00:52:46,480
right yeah

1327
00:52:49,670 --> 00:52:48,400
but he couldn't find a footprint and i

1328
00:52:52,470 --> 00:52:49,680
could see that he couldn't because

1329
00:52:53,349 --> 00:52:52,480
you know we were looking out and uh they

1330
00:52:54,630 --> 00:52:53,359
had this

1331
00:52:56,710 --> 00:52:54,640
headlight you know they had the

1332
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:56,720
headlights on the vehicle also had this

1333
00:52:59,990 --> 00:52:57,359
uh

1334
00:53:01,109 --> 00:53:00,000
light that they could shine around oh

1335
00:53:03,030 --> 00:53:01,119
yeah absolutely

1336
00:53:04,549 --> 00:53:03,040
and they had two flashlights in that in

1337
00:53:07,270 --> 00:53:04,559
that four-wheel drive

1338
00:53:09,109 --> 00:53:07,280
and couldn't it couldn't find any print

1339
00:53:09,430 --> 00:53:09,119
couldn't find a shred of evidence not

1340
00:53:15,750 --> 00:53:09,440
not

1341
00:53:17,910 --> 00:53:15,760
and i uh set back and i kind of

1342
00:53:19,829 --> 00:53:17,920
i just felt good about it because you

1343
00:53:21,190 --> 00:53:19,839
know i knew that they had taken him i

1344
00:53:24,950 --> 00:53:21,200
knew that they'd take him and then

1345
00:53:28,630 --> 00:53:24,960
taken him for a purpose to fix him

1346
00:53:30,790 --> 00:53:28,640
and so that that made me feel good

1347
00:53:32,549 --> 00:53:30,800
uh i was still concerned for the whole

1348
00:53:34,150 --> 00:53:32,559
thing going on with the sheriff and all

1349
00:53:36,150 --> 00:53:34,160
them but

1350
00:53:38,150 --> 00:53:36,160
yeah i i would just sit back there and

1351
00:53:41,030 --> 00:53:38,160
just kind of like

1352
00:53:42,230 --> 00:53:41,040
i was emotional and and they saw that

1353
00:53:45,750 --> 00:53:42,240
they could see that

1354
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:45,760
but i wasn't scared i wasn't i wasn't

1355
00:53:50,870 --> 00:53:48,880
i wasn't crying for travis i was happy

1356
00:53:53,270 --> 00:53:50,880
for him

1357
00:53:55,190 --> 00:53:53,280
wow wow that's really fascinating hey

1358
00:53:56,390 --> 00:53:55,200
we're right at the break so we're gonna

1359
00:53:58,630 --> 00:53:56,400
head into break and

1360
00:53:59,990 --> 00:53:58,640
uh actually i really don't want you to

1361
00:54:01,990 --> 00:54:00,000
go anywhere because we're going to still

1362
00:54:05,190 --> 00:54:02,000
be live on youtube

1363
00:54:06,630 --> 00:54:05,200
so all right everybody i don't have time

1364
00:54:10,230 --> 00:54:06,640
to go to the bathroom

1365
00:54:12,790 --> 00:54:10,240
i know yeah all right you may uh you may

1366
00:54:13,270 --> 00:54:12,800
um and uh but just uh just signal me

1367
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:13,280
when you

1368
00:54:18,630 --> 00:54:16,319
everyone

1369
00:54:19,829 --> 00:54:18,640
so hang in there uh we'll be right back

1370
00:54:26,150 --> 00:54:19,839
uh right after

1371
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:28,630
all right everyone so um i know we're

1372
00:54:33,109 --> 00:54:29,839
going to be giving away

1373
00:54:34,790 --> 00:54:33,119
these uh and i realize it's only you

1374
00:54:36,390 --> 00:54:34,800
over there youtube i'm talking to so

1375
00:54:39,910 --> 00:54:36,400
i'll have to announce this again

1376
00:54:42,630 --> 00:54:39,920
but we're going to be giving away the uh

1377
00:54:44,789 --> 00:54:42,640
tickets uh so i'm trying to figure out

1378
00:54:47,990 --> 00:54:44,799
what this is it's a virtual

1379
00:54:49,190 --> 00:54:48,000
hunt in music fest um and i'm sure

1380
00:54:52,710 --> 00:54:49,200
there's probably something

1381
00:54:55,030 --> 00:54:52,720
on the kgra um

1382
00:54:56,230 --> 00:54:55,040
you know their website about it it's

1383
00:54:59,030 --> 00:54:56,240
called uh

1384
00:55:00,230 --> 00:54:59,040
the like i said the virtual haunt in

1385
00:55:03,270 --> 00:55:00,240
music fest

1386
00:55:06,230 --> 00:55:03,280
and the event will occur on the 29th

1387
00:55:08,390 --> 00:55:06,240
of this month through the first of

1388
00:55:10,950 --> 00:55:08,400
november

1389
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:10,960
and it's an exclusive free live stream

1390
00:55:14,549 --> 00:55:11,760
ticket

1391
00:55:14,950 --> 00:55:14,559
you'll have 24 hour surveillance again

1392
00:55:17,430 --> 00:55:14,960
i've

1393
00:55:17,990 --> 00:55:17,440
got to ask what that means surveillance

1394
00:55:20,069 --> 00:55:18,000
uh

1395
00:55:21,510 --> 00:55:20,079
that's kind of a i don't really

1396
00:55:23,670 --> 00:55:21,520
understand but

1397
00:55:25,589 --> 00:55:23,680
uh interaction with your favorite

1398
00:55:27,829 --> 00:55:25,599
paranormal investigators

1399
00:55:28,950 --> 00:55:27,839
live music and a halloween costume

1400
00:55:32,230 --> 00:55:28,960
contest

1401
00:55:35,270 --> 00:55:32,240
um so anyway uh we'll be talking more

1402
00:55:37,349 --> 00:55:35,280
about that but i also want to say that

1403
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:37,359
next week if you're live here on youtube

1404
00:55:42,230 --> 00:55:38,319
it's going to be a little bit

1405
00:55:43,270 --> 00:55:42,240
different i have at the same time

1406
00:55:46,309 --> 00:55:43,280
but it's actually going to be on

1407
00:55:49,270 --> 00:55:46,319
halloween night i have

1408
00:55:50,789 --> 00:55:49,280
paul stonehill he's very hard to get on

1409
00:55:53,510 --> 00:55:50,799
so i had to really

1410
00:55:55,430 --> 00:55:53,520
juggle around uh there's one other uh

1411
00:55:56,150 --> 00:55:55,440
thing somewhere in november i'm doing

1412
00:55:57,910 --> 00:55:56,160
the same thing

1413
00:55:59,829 --> 00:55:57,920
i'm i'm gonna be talking to a couple

1414
00:56:03,270 --> 00:55:59,839
people from england

1415
00:56:04,150 --> 00:56:03,280
um professor clark uh david clarke and

1416
00:56:05,750 --> 00:56:04,160
uh

1417
00:56:08,630 --> 00:56:05,760
phil philip mantle so that's gonna be a

1418
00:56:11,910 --> 00:56:08,640
daytime show but this coming

1419
00:56:13,750 --> 00:56:11,920
this is coming um 31st

1420
00:56:15,349 --> 00:56:13,760
which is i'm trying to pull up my

1421
00:56:18,230 --> 00:56:15,359
calendar here

1422
00:56:19,990 --> 00:56:18,240
here we go yeah it is a saturday night

1423
00:56:21,589 --> 00:56:20,000
this coming saturday night

1424
00:56:23,109 --> 00:56:21,599
we're going to be live on youtube live

1425
00:56:26,150 --> 00:56:23,119
streaming on youtube

1426
00:56:27,190 --> 00:56:26,160
at 6 p.m the usual time with paul

1427
00:56:29,430 --> 00:56:27,200
stonehill

1428
00:56:30,870 --> 00:56:29,440
now if you listen to the podcast through

1429
00:56:34,230 --> 00:56:30,880
audio

1430
00:56:37,270 --> 00:56:34,240
or kgra radio

1431
00:56:39,510 --> 00:56:37,280
it will be a pre-record playing that

1432
00:56:41,030 --> 00:56:39,520
night and you will as a podcast listen

1433
00:56:43,750 --> 00:56:41,040
you'll get that podcast

1434
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:43,760
at the usual time but uh for those of

1435
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:45,760
you who want to catch it live

1436
00:56:51,349 --> 00:56:49,680
paul stonehill 6 p.m the 31st this

1437
00:56:53,910 --> 00:56:51,359
coming saturday

1438
00:56:56,870 --> 00:56:53,920
and let me see if we have our guest back

1439
00:57:03,670 --> 00:56:59,990
crickets uh anyway

1440
00:57:03,680 --> 00:57:08,470
i hear noise you must be back

1441
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:11,349
i am here your producer for kgra i just

1442
00:57:14,230 --> 00:57:13,200
want to clarify a couple of things the

1443
00:57:16,549 --> 00:57:14,240
virtual it's

1444
00:57:18,069 --> 00:57:16,559
it's the the the surveillance is they're

1445
00:57:20,470 --> 00:57:18,079
going to have cameras

1446
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:20,480
in uh certain parts of the ship it's a

1447
00:57:26,870 --> 00:57:21,599
24-hour

1448
00:57:30,150 --> 00:57:26,880
surveillance of those rooms

1449
00:57:30,630 --> 00:57:30,160
i get it yeah so that they'll be able to

1450
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:30,640
keep an

1451
00:57:34,630 --> 00:57:32,160
eye on everything that's going on

1452
00:57:36,870 --> 00:57:34,640
through cameras uh throughout the ship

1453
00:57:38,549 --> 00:57:36,880
the queen sounds uh that sounds like a

1454
00:57:40,549 --> 00:57:38,559
privacy issue

1455
00:57:42,150 --> 00:57:40,559
well they've got full access of the ship

1456
00:57:44,309 --> 00:57:42,160
so it should be really cool so

1457
00:57:47,030 --> 00:57:44,319
matter of fact let's do this now the

1458
00:57:48,549 --> 00:57:47,040
first two callers the first two callers

1459
00:57:51,030 --> 00:57:48,559
at eight five five

1460
00:57:52,309 --> 00:57:51,040
four seven two five four eight three

1461
00:57:55,030 --> 00:57:52,319
will win

1462
00:57:55,510 --> 00:57:55,040
two free tickets access to the four day

1463
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:55,520
event

1464
00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:56,960
beginning on thursday night at eight

1465
00:58:01,990 --> 00:57:59,520
eastern so the first two callers will

1466
00:58:02,710 --> 00:58:02,000
win those uh free passes for the event

1467
00:58:04,390 --> 00:58:02,720
so

1468
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:04,400
call me up now and you'll do that and

1469
00:58:07,589 --> 00:58:05,920
martin we have about 30 seconds before

1470
00:58:09,990 --> 00:58:07,599
we come back and hopefully

1471
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:10,000
mike rogers will be back with us soon

1472
00:58:13,990 --> 00:58:11,280
well you know we can just

1473
00:58:15,670 --> 00:58:14,000
bring this right back into uh kgra radio

1474
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:15,680
when we go back live

1475
00:58:20,870 --> 00:58:19,200
yes and um by the way if the phones ring

1476
00:58:22,549 --> 00:58:20,880
because they're not ringing right now i

1477
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:22,559
will be going bye-bye so i can answer

1478
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:23,280
the phones

1479
00:58:28,870 --> 00:58:27,119
but we're coming so stay there

1480
00:58:30,230 --> 00:58:28,880
we're starting all right martin let me

1481
00:58:32,150 --> 00:58:30,240
count you in first

1482
00:58:33,430 --> 00:58:32,160
okay caller just stand by i'm getting

1483
00:58:36,309 --> 00:58:33,440
martin back on the air

1484
00:58:37,510 --> 00:58:36,319
all right all right i'm here okay cool

1485
00:58:41,109 --> 00:58:37,520
um

1486
00:58:44,470 --> 00:58:41,119
stand by in three two one

1487
00:58:46,710 --> 00:58:44,480
go welcome back uh this is martin willis

1488
00:58:47,990 --> 00:58:46,720
and my guest tonight is mike heston

1489
00:58:49,030 --> 00:58:48,000
roger so we were in the middle of

1490
00:58:52,069 --> 00:58:49,040
discussing

1491
00:58:53,589 --> 00:58:52,079
the travis walton incident and we're

1492
00:58:54,710 --> 00:58:53,599
getting into when the police were

1493
00:58:55,990 --> 00:58:54,720
getting involved

1494
00:58:57,910 --> 00:58:56,000
i will get into that we're going to go

1495
00:58:59,750 --> 00:58:57,920
on to other subjects um

1496
00:59:01,829 --> 00:58:59,760
so but right now uh bill i'm going to

1497
00:59:02,309 --> 00:59:01,839
let you chime in and take over on this

1498
00:59:03,589 --> 00:59:02,319
uh

1499
00:59:05,510 --> 00:59:03,599
well actually you've you gotta answer

1500
00:59:08,069 --> 00:59:05,520
the phone

1501
00:59:09,750 --> 00:59:08,079
so uh i'll i'll read what that is and

1502
00:59:11,109 --> 00:59:09,760
now i understand what the surveillance

1503
00:59:13,589 --> 00:59:11,119
is for those of you

1504
00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:13,599
who didn't hear uh didn't understand it

1505
00:59:18,309 --> 00:59:14,400
either

1506
00:59:19,910 --> 00:59:18,319
this uh this queen mary is

1507
00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:19,920
the queen mary's going to have like

1508
00:59:23,270 --> 00:59:21,760
surveillance cameras that are active so

1509
00:59:24,549 --> 00:59:23,280
you're going to be able to

1510
00:59:26,630 --> 00:59:24,559
i think you could be able to spy on

1511
00:59:29,430 --> 00:59:26,640
people sounds kind of exciting

1512
00:59:30,789 --> 00:59:29,440
but uh i'll let bill clarify that a

1513
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:30,799
little more

1514
00:59:35,829 --> 00:59:33,440
for right now uh we do have a caller so

1515
00:59:38,549 --> 00:59:35,839
i guess bill's taking care of that

1516
00:59:42,230 --> 00:59:38,559
and i'll keep you on bill if you wanted

1517
00:59:49,030 --> 00:59:45,510
uh so mike let's uh okay

1518
00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:49,040
let's uh continue try to uh

1519
00:59:56,390 --> 00:59:53,040
continue where we left off i'll try

1520
00:59:57,910 --> 00:59:56,400
yeah and basically you know the the

1521
00:59:59,270 --> 00:59:57,920
police the the question i have for you

1522
01:00:02,630 --> 00:59:59,280
right now is

1523
01:00:05,190 --> 01:00:02,640
when did things start to turn

1524
01:00:06,309 --> 01:00:05,200
when all of a sudden you become a

1525
01:00:09,990 --> 01:00:06,319
suspect i mean

1526
01:00:11,670 --> 01:00:10,000
the the five four of you five of you

1527
01:00:13,430 --> 01:00:11,680
well actually we didn't we didn't even

1528
01:00:17,030 --> 01:00:13,440
know i mean we knew

1529
01:00:20,630 --> 01:00:17,040
we knew it was coming okay but we didn't

1530
01:00:23,910 --> 01:00:20,640
actually hear them say that until uh

1531
01:00:27,030 --> 01:00:23,920
two days into the search

1532
01:00:29,670 --> 01:00:27,040
and and the sheriff came up and uh said

1533
01:00:30,069 --> 01:00:29,680
well actually ken it was ken copeland as

1534
01:00:31,750 --> 01:00:30,079
well

1535
01:00:33,990 --> 01:00:31,760
because he was with the sheriff all the

1536
01:00:38,630 --> 01:00:34,000
time anyway

1537
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:38,640
uh they came to us and me and uh

1538
01:00:43,109 --> 01:00:40,880
uh kim peterson and alan dallas were

1539
01:00:47,510 --> 01:00:43,119
there time

1540
01:00:50,870 --> 01:00:49,270
ken copeland says are you guys sticking

1541
01:00:54,230 --> 01:00:50,880
to your story

1542
01:00:55,510 --> 01:00:54,240
i said yeah it's true

1543
01:00:59,990 --> 01:00:55,520
there are a few things in the movie they

1544
01:01:04,549 --> 01:01:03,430
anyway uh i said yeah well what do you

1545
01:01:06,230 --> 01:01:04,559
want i mean

1546
01:01:08,710 --> 01:01:06,240
and they said well we want you to take a

1547
01:01:11,750 --> 01:01:08,720
lie detective test i said

1548
01:01:13,750 --> 01:01:11,760
oh well and i think

1549
01:01:15,030 --> 01:01:13,760
john gallette was actually there too he

1550
01:01:18,230 --> 01:01:15,040
said uh

1551
01:01:21,430 --> 01:01:18,240
i don't know i don't know

1552
01:01:24,230 --> 01:01:21,440
and now in dallas uh just from like

1553
01:01:27,109 --> 01:01:24,240
speechless you know

1554
01:01:28,710 --> 01:01:27,119
and uh i found out later that alan

1555
01:01:31,190 --> 01:01:28,720
dallas didn't want to go

1556
01:01:33,589 --> 01:01:31,200
take that lie detector test right

1557
01:01:35,349 --> 01:01:33,599
because he uh he had had some scrape for

1558
01:01:37,190 --> 01:01:35,359
the law which i didn't know about at the

1559
01:01:39,750 --> 01:01:37,200
time

1560
01:01:42,950 --> 01:01:39,760
and uh so when when we actually got into

1561
01:01:45,190 --> 01:01:42,960
the lie detector test which was like

1562
01:01:47,430 --> 01:01:45,200
up after the sir after four days of

1563
01:01:49,910 --> 01:01:47,440
searching this was like a monday

1564
01:01:51,750 --> 01:01:49,920
it just coincidentally ended up that way

1565
01:01:53,190 --> 01:01:51,760
i mean they searched all the way through

1566
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:53,200
sunday

1567
01:01:58,390 --> 01:01:56,640
now the the the uh search was kind of

1568
01:02:00,150 --> 01:01:58,400
petering out like around two in the

1569
01:02:03,510 --> 01:02:00,160
afternoon on sunday

1570
01:02:05,109 --> 01:02:03,520
but uh monday morning they're all set up

1571
01:02:06,630 --> 01:02:05,119
for these live detective tests they had

1572
01:02:10,470 --> 01:02:06,640
a guy from

1573
01:02:12,470 --> 01:02:10,480
sy gilson was the name is out he dps

1574
01:02:14,630 --> 01:02:12,480
polygraph examiner he didn't know

1575
01:02:16,069 --> 01:02:14,640
anything about this story you know he

1576
01:02:16,470 --> 01:02:16,079
didn't he didn't know anything about it

1577
01:02:18,309 --> 01:02:16,480
uh

1578
01:02:19,589 --> 01:02:18,319
gillespie had told them what it was

1579
01:02:22,870 --> 01:02:19,599
about but

1580
01:02:24,470 --> 01:02:22,880
but but vaguely and uh

1581
01:02:26,789 --> 01:02:24,480
allen didn't want to take the test but

1582
01:02:30,150 --> 01:02:26,799
he showed up anyway okay

1583
01:02:33,990 --> 01:02:30,160
and gillespie found his test to be

1584
01:02:36,630 --> 01:02:34,000
inconclusive right later on i found out

1585
01:02:37,029 --> 01:02:36,640
that that allen had actually pulled

1586
01:02:40,309 --> 01:02:37,039
himself

1587
01:02:40,789 --> 01:02:40,319
loose from that machine uh after the

1588
01:02:43,510 --> 01:02:40,799
third

1589
01:02:43,910 --> 01:02:43,520
run through you see these tests took

1590
01:02:45,910 --> 01:02:43,920
like

1591
01:02:47,990 --> 01:02:45,920
two hours a piece we started out pretty

1592
01:02:52,549 --> 01:02:48,000
early in the morning it was about 8 30

1593
01:02:55,510 --> 01:02:52,559
8 32 and

1594
01:02:55,990 --> 01:02:55,520
they lasted all day long and uh into the

1595
01:02:59,670 --> 01:02:56,000
evening

1596
01:03:02,789 --> 01:02:59,680
uh we were there until uh 8 8 30

1597
01:03:04,549 --> 01:03:02,799
past 8 30 okay uh

1598
01:03:05,910 --> 01:03:04,559
because these tests took two hours of

1599
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:05,920
peace approximately

1600
01:03:09,430 --> 01:03:07,920
wow they were different for each guy of

1601
01:03:12,950 --> 01:03:09,440
course but alan's

1602
01:03:14,069 --> 01:03:12,960
test came along later uh he wasn't the

1603
01:03:18,309 --> 01:03:14,079
first one he was

1604
01:03:20,230 --> 01:03:18,319
like third i think anyway he uh

1605
01:03:21,990 --> 01:03:20,240
he was considered inconclusive but they

1606
01:03:22,630 --> 01:03:22,000
didn't tell us that until after it was

1607
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:22,640
all over

1608
01:03:28,710 --> 01:03:25,920
okay and uh and anyway and

1609
01:03:30,470 --> 01:03:28,720
so i understood why i mean alan and

1610
01:03:33,750 --> 01:03:30,480
travis didn't like each other

1611
01:03:35,430 --> 01:03:33,760
uh they didn't like each other at all

1612
01:03:38,789 --> 01:03:35,440
in fact i had even gotten in a fight

1613
01:03:42,829 --> 01:03:38,799
with alan just a few days before that

1614
01:03:45,829 --> 01:03:42,839
and pretty much kicked his butt okay

1615
01:03:48,630 --> 01:03:45,839
he i'm getting off the track there i'm

1616
01:03:52,390 --> 01:03:51,029
again i just find this all so funny now

1617
01:03:55,910 --> 01:03:52,400
i just do

1618
01:03:57,349 --> 01:03:55,920
but let me just ask this what makes it

1619
01:03:59,430 --> 01:03:57,359
funny to you

1620
01:04:02,069 --> 01:03:59,440
i'm just curious i'm not i'm not and

1621
01:04:05,589 --> 01:04:02,079
don't take that as an insult

1622
01:04:08,789 --> 01:04:05,599
i'm not really here uh

1623
01:04:10,710 --> 01:04:08,799
i i'm not i'm not giving you words there

1624
01:04:13,750 --> 01:04:10,720
i don't know i don't even know what

1625
01:04:17,109 --> 01:04:13,760
makes me talk right now i really don't

1626
01:04:19,430 --> 01:04:17,119
seriously uh

1627
01:04:21,109 --> 01:04:19,440
and i i that's part of the reason why i

1628
01:04:23,430 --> 01:04:21,119
find it funny

1629
01:04:24,390 --> 01:04:23,440
because i'm saying words i remember

1630
01:04:26,950 --> 01:04:24,400
things that

1631
01:04:28,230 --> 01:04:26,960
that i shouldn't even remember i

1632
01:04:29,589 --> 01:04:28,240
remember all kinds of things i shouldn't

1633
01:04:31,829 --> 01:04:29,599
remember i'm thinking

1634
01:04:36,230 --> 01:04:31,839
what the where is that coming from it's

1635
01:04:41,510 --> 01:04:39,270
when i paint i don't when i write i i

1636
01:04:44,549 --> 01:04:41,520
know every word in the dictionary

1637
01:04:46,870 --> 01:04:44,559
i don't know why it's not me i will be

1638
01:04:47,589 --> 01:04:46,880
typing a word and i can type really fast

1639
01:04:49,990 --> 01:04:47,599
okay

1640
01:04:51,670 --> 01:04:50,000
i i will be typing something you know

1641
01:04:54,069 --> 01:04:51,680
some part of the thing

1642
01:04:55,589 --> 01:04:54,079
you know and and i would come upon and

1643
01:04:57,670 --> 01:04:55,599
i'll tape a word in there

1644
01:04:59,349 --> 01:04:57,680
and i looked and i was like i don't even

1645
01:05:00,950 --> 01:04:59,359
know what the hell that word is

1646
01:05:03,029 --> 01:05:00,960
so i look it up in the dictionary and

1647
01:05:04,230 --> 01:05:03,039
i'll be damned it's the perfect word for

1648
01:05:07,190 --> 01:05:04,240
that spot

1649
01:05:08,230 --> 01:05:07,200
it's not me i don't know what's going on

1650
01:05:10,390 --> 01:05:08,240
here

1651
01:05:11,510 --> 01:05:10,400
i just i just find it unusual and and

1652
01:05:12,870 --> 01:05:11,520
therefore funny

1653
01:05:14,710 --> 01:05:12,880
because that's what humor is it's

1654
01:05:19,270 --> 01:05:14,720
unusual

1655
01:05:21,430 --> 01:05:19,280
okay so in that respect i'm just

1656
01:05:22,230 --> 01:05:21,440
responding like a person normally would

1657
01:05:25,349 --> 01:05:22,240
to

1658
01:05:28,630 --> 01:05:25,359
something that's unusual yeah

1659
01:05:29,029 --> 01:05:28,640
yeah yeah so you you guys go through

1660
01:05:32,150 --> 01:05:29,039
this

1661
01:05:34,230 --> 01:05:32,160
grueling test and what happens uh

1662
01:05:36,230 --> 01:05:34,240
all right say they're two hours a piece

1663
01:05:37,910 --> 01:05:36,240
and where are you in between

1664
01:05:41,589 --> 01:05:37,920
like in other words you're not doing the

1665
01:05:46,150 --> 01:05:41,599
test do they hold you in a room

1666
01:05:48,710 --> 01:05:46,160
well the whole place was like a we were

1667
01:05:50,230 --> 01:05:48,720
we weren't told that we were being held

1668
01:05:52,710 --> 01:05:50,240
against our will

1669
01:05:54,950 --> 01:05:52,720
but it was very obvious to all of us in

1670
01:05:57,750 --> 01:05:54,960
fact when our tests were over with

1671
01:05:58,309 --> 01:05:57,760
they put us out in this big high-walled

1672
01:06:12,870 --> 01:05:58,319
uh

1673
01:06:15,990 --> 01:06:12,880
were in prison basically

1674
01:06:17,750 --> 01:06:16,000
i mean i mean we were i mean

1675
01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:17,760
if we hadn't passed those tests by the

1676
01:06:21,270 --> 01:06:19,280
way in arizona you know

1677
01:06:23,750 --> 01:06:21,280
you don't have to uh you can be accused

1678
01:06:26,950 --> 01:06:23,760
of murder and and hung for it i mean

1679
01:06:28,470 --> 01:06:26,960
without even producing a body

1680
01:06:31,510 --> 01:06:28,480
i didn't know that at the time either

1681
01:06:33,430 --> 01:06:31,520
but i do now and uh

1682
01:06:34,549 --> 01:06:33,440
i don't know if that changed since then

1683
01:06:37,270 --> 01:06:34,559
but uh it

1684
01:06:37,750 --> 01:06:37,280
certainly wasn't the true then and uh

1685
01:06:39,670 --> 01:06:37,760
and so

1686
01:06:40,870 --> 01:06:39,680
and we didn't know it but but we just we

1687
01:06:45,029 --> 01:06:40,880
knew we were in we were

1688
01:06:47,750 --> 01:06:45,039
in prison uh basically and uh

1689
01:06:48,870 --> 01:06:47,760
go ahead did anyone actually come out

1690
01:06:52,150 --> 01:06:48,880
and say

1691
01:06:54,710 --> 01:06:52,160
directly to you um or

1692
01:06:55,589 --> 01:06:54,720
or just try to make you admit that you

1693
01:06:57,430 --> 01:06:55,599
murdered

1694
01:06:58,789 --> 01:06:57,440
travis i mean did they actually those

1695
01:07:01,349 --> 01:06:58,799
words come out like

1696
01:07:02,870 --> 01:07:01,359
oh ken peterson i mean not confusing ken

1697
01:07:06,789 --> 01:07:02,880
copeland did

1698
01:07:08,549 --> 01:07:06,799
yeah wow uh uh he didn't say those words

1699
01:07:12,470 --> 01:07:08,559
exactly but he meant that

1700
01:07:15,270 --> 01:07:12,480
okay yeah everybody talks and um

1701
01:07:15,910 --> 01:07:15,280
so so the was the speculation that um

1702
01:07:20,069 --> 01:07:15,920
they

1703
01:07:21,990 --> 01:07:20,079
led you led them to a a different place

1704
01:07:24,789 --> 01:07:22,000
and that's not where it happened but you

1705
01:07:26,870 --> 01:07:24,799
killed travis or travis died on the job

1706
01:07:28,309 --> 01:07:26,880
somewhere yeah that's what they thought

1707
01:07:31,349 --> 01:07:28,319
yeah like i say

1708
01:07:32,789 --> 01:07:31,359
uh gillespie didn't actually think we

1709
01:07:35,270 --> 01:07:32,799
had killed him

1710
01:07:37,510 --> 01:07:35,280
he believed the ufo story but he

1711
01:07:39,510 --> 01:07:37,520
couldn't say it at the time

1712
01:07:41,109 --> 01:07:39,520
in fact he still doesn't say or well

1713
01:07:44,150 --> 01:07:41,119
he's dead now but he but he couldn't

1714
01:07:46,549 --> 01:07:44,160
he's never said it directly

1715
01:07:47,270 --> 01:07:46,559
and who played who who did james garner

1716
01:07:49,750 --> 01:07:47,280
play in the

1717
01:07:53,349 --> 01:07:49,760
fire in the sky he played a person who

1718
01:07:56,390 --> 01:07:55,750
laughing yeah what they've done there

1719
01:07:58,069 --> 01:07:56,400
okay i

1720
01:07:59,910 --> 01:07:58,079
talked to tracy tormey about this

1721
01:08:02,549 --> 01:07:59,920
several times uh the

1722
01:08:03,270 --> 01:08:02,559
you know the writer of that movie he

1723
01:08:06,230 --> 01:08:03,280
said that

1724
01:08:07,430 --> 01:08:06,240
uh james garner was a composite

1725
01:08:11,670 --> 01:08:07,440
character

1726
01:08:14,710 --> 01:08:11,680
of uh philip class okay

1727
01:08:16,630 --> 01:08:14,720
and uh and the sheriff

1728
01:08:19,510 --> 01:08:16,640
but they call it the state investigator

1729
01:08:22,309 --> 01:08:19,520
and there was no state investigator okay

1730
01:08:23,110 --> 01:08:22,319
no such person so he was a fictitious

1731
01:08:26,470 --> 01:08:23,120
character

1732
01:08:29,990 --> 01:08:26,480
in the movie yeah how about that

1733
01:08:32,070 --> 01:08:30,000
yeah and and so uh

1734
01:08:34,309 --> 01:08:32,080
i can't remember what was it four days

1735
01:08:37,030 --> 01:08:34,319
that this went on

1736
01:08:37,510 --> 01:08:37,040
the well the the first search that night

1737
01:08:40,870 --> 01:08:37,520
was

1738
01:08:44,149 --> 01:08:43,030
but then it went into four actual days

1739
01:08:45,990 --> 01:08:44,159
of search which

1740
01:08:47,349 --> 01:08:46,000
which petered out like i said on sunday

1741
01:08:49,590 --> 01:08:47,359
evening

1742
01:08:51,430 --> 01:08:49,600
and then the polygraph tests were bright

1743
01:08:53,269 --> 01:08:51,440
and early monday morning well not bright

1744
01:08:56,789 --> 01:08:53,279
and early because i get up at five but

1745
01:09:00,149 --> 01:08:56,799
you know the same same uh

1746
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:00,159
the usual early morning time you know

1747
01:09:09,110 --> 01:09:07,189
we're supposed to be there at eight uh

1748
01:09:13,110 --> 01:09:09,120
we didn't show up at eight

1749
01:09:16,470 --> 01:09:13,120
we were there a few minutes late yep

1750
01:09:16,950 --> 01:09:16,480
and and uh so it was it was i'm just

1751
01:09:20,550 --> 01:09:16,960
trying to

1752
01:09:23,590 --> 01:09:20,560
figure out the timeline um but also

1753
01:09:25,269 --> 01:09:23,600
what were they doing with you these days

1754
01:09:27,669 --> 01:09:25,279
until all of a sudden

1755
01:09:28,470 --> 01:09:27,679
travis calls his brother from the phone

1756
01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:28,480
booth

1757
01:09:31,749 --> 01:09:30,239
yeah and by the way i didn't even know

1758
01:09:34,149 --> 01:09:31,759
about that at the time

1759
01:09:35,749 --> 01:09:34,159
oh really yeah his brother held that

1760
01:09:38,789 --> 01:09:35,759
back um

1761
01:09:42,070 --> 01:09:38,799
i didn't even know about it until travis

1762
01:09:44,709 --> 01:09:42,080
uh until i'd heard

1763
01:09:46,149 --> 01:09:44,719
through the the sheriff gillespie that

1764
01:09:47,430 --> 01:09:46,159
travis was back

1765
01:09:49,910 --> 01:09:47,440
that's what i'm worried about and that

1766
01:09:53,669 --> 01:09:49,920
was the next day

1767
01:09:56,950 --> 01:09:53,679
wow afternoon or the next day

1768
01:10:00,229 --> 01:09:56,960
about 2 15. so you had all that time to

1769
01:10:02,470 --> 01:10:00,239
still worry and be upset and

1770
01:10:03,990 --> 01:10:02,480
wonder what's happening and no one told

1771
01:10:06,470 --> 01:10:04,000
you for a whole day

1772
01:10:07,990 --> 01:10:06,480
well like i say i wasn't all that

1773
01:10:09,350 --> 01:10:08,000
worried i pretty much knew what was

1774
01:10:11,270 --> 01:10:09,360
going on

1775
01:10:13,270 --> 01:10:11,280
i even said that a few times and they

1776
01:10:14,870 --> 01:10:13,280
took him

1777
01:10:17,030 --> 01:10:14,880
but that's all they would get of it i

1778
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:17,040
mean they wouldn't ask me to elaborate

1779
01:10:19,350 --> 01:10:17,760
so i couldn't

1780
01:10:23,750 --> 01:10:19,360
uh they wouldn't give me time to

1781
01:10:31,669 --> 01:10:27,590
all right so once you found out i mean

1782
01:10:35,590 --> 01:10:31,679
did they just say uh you know uh

1783
01:10:37,510 --> 01:10:35,600
i mean were you still in that building

1784
01:10:39,270 --> 01:10:37,520
like you said you were imprisoned in a

1785
01:10:41,990 --> 01:10:39,280
way the courthouse yeah

1786
01:10:44,709 --> 01:10:42,000
yeah were you still were you still there

1787
01:10:46,390 --> 01:10:44,719
that day when they found him

1788
01:10:48,149 --> 01:10:46,400
well that was the next day i mean the

1789
01:10:51,189 --> 01:10:48,159
following day did they

1790
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:51,199
no no see because we passed the test

1791
01:10:54,550 --> 01:10:53,760
even though it was inconclusive and

1792
01:10:56,550 --> 01:10:54,560
alan's test

1793
01:10:58,229 --> 01:10:56,560
actually was he was telling the truth

1794
01:11:00,550 --> 01:10:58,239
too that's why

1795
01:11:02,310 --> 01:11:00,560
he said when he left the building this

1796
01:11:06,070 --> 01:11:02,320
is what he told me

1797
01:11:09,110 --> 01:11:06,080
sai gilson told me later that he had

1798
01:11:10,950 --> 01:11:09,120
told sheriff gillespie and

1799
01:11:13,110 --> 01:11:10,960
ken copeland at the same time they were

1800
01:11:15,510 --> 01:11:13,120
sitting there waiting you know

1801
01:11:16,310 --> 01:11:15,520
eight o'clock in the evening past eight

1802
01:11:19,669 --> 01:11:16,320
o'clock anyway

1803
01:11:21,030 --> 01:11:19,679
yeah he told them uh they passed the

1804
01:11:24,630 --> 01:11:21,040
test

1805
01:11:27,270 --> 01:11:24,640
well he only said that because he was

1806
01:11:27,750 --> 01:11:27,280
trying to generalize on all of them but

1807
01:11:30,790 --> 01:11:27,760
alan

1808
01:11:31,510 --> 01:11:30,800
actually had passed his test he just

1809
01:11:34,229 --> 01:11:31,520
pulled himself

1810
01:11:35,110 --> 01:11:34,239
loose from this machine after the third

1811
01:11:37,350 --> 01:11:35,120
run-through

1812
01:11:39,430 --> 01:11:37,360
of the questioning because if anybody

1813
01:11:40,950 --> 01:11:39,440
knows anything about lie detector tests

1814
01:11:42,630 --> 01:11:40,960
that's why they take two hours if

1815
01:11:45,830 --> 01:11:42,640
they're if they're an actual

1816
01:11:47,510 --> 01:11:45,840
legitimate test they they go

1817
01:11:49,189 --> 01:11:47,520
three times through the questions to

1818
01:11:50,229 --> 01:11:49,199
make sure that you understand what the

1819
01:11:52,390 --> 01:11:50,239
questions are

1820
01:11:54,310 --> 01:11:52,400
to make sure of your response to make

1821
01:11:56,470 --> 01:11:54,320
sure of everything uh and

1822
01:11:58,709 --> 01:11:56,480
and that they use all of those tests

1823
01:12:01,350 --> 01:11:58,719
okay but the last one that they do

1824
01:12:03,030 --> 01:12:01,360
is the is their official one but they're

1825
01:12:05,430 --> 01:12:03,040
but there's two rehearsals

1826
01:12:07,350 --> 01:12:05,440
okay if you want to call them that but

1827
01:12:07,990 --> 01:12:07,360
but you don't know the rehearsals only

1828
01:12:12,390 --> 01:12:08,000
the examiner

1829
01:12:19,430 --> 01:12:16,070
yeah isn't that something yeah

1830
01:12:21,189 --> 01:12:19,440
and so you were basically let let go or

1831
01:12:22,870 --> 01:12:21,199
more or less than you you heard

1832
01:12:24,790 --> 01:12:22,880
what was it when was the next time you

1833
01:12:27,030 --> 01:12:24,800
actually saw travis after that

1834
01:12:27,910 --> 01:12:27,040
whole incident oh it was like two days

1835
01:12:29,669 --> 01:12:27,920
later

1836
01:12:31,110 --> 01:12:29,679
and was the press everywhere at that

1837
01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:31,120
time

1838
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:33,760
oh yeah yeah i mean the press was

1839
01:12:38,229 --> 01:12:35,280
everywhere

1840
01:12:39,669 --> 01:12:38,239
uh every i'll just put that they were

1841
01:12:40,790 --> 01:12:39,679
everywhere

1842
01:12:42,790 --> 01:12:40,800
they were on the they were on the

1843
01:12:45,830 --> 01:12:42,800
courthouse steps

1844
01:12:47,669 --> 01:12:45,840
travis hadn't even been returned okay

1845
01:12:49,189 --> 01:12:47,679
and and they were i don't there could

1846
01:12:52,229 --> 01:12:49,199
have must been 20 25

1847
01:12:54,630 --> 01:12:52,239
of them okay that's another accurate

1848
01:12:58,229 --> 01:12:54,640
part of the movie

1849
01:13:03,270 --> 01:13:01,270
yeah they did i mean

1850
01:13:04,950 --> 01:13:03,280
each one had a different slant on things

1851
01:13:06,709 --> 01:13:04,960
different questions but

1852
01:13:10,390 --> 01:13:06,719
yeah in general you could call it

1853
01:13:15,990 --> 01:13:13,830
they hectored me yeah

1854
01:13:17,030 --> 01:13:16,000
and so you saw travis a couple days

1855
01:13:19,430 --> 01:13:17,040
later and

1856
01:13:20,950 --> 01:13:19,440
one of the parts um i've never asked

1857
01:13:23,830 --> 01:13:20,960
travis

1858
01:13:25,110 --> 01:13:23,840
of this question is in the movie if i

1859
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:25,120
haven't seen the movie for probably a

1860
01:13:30,149 --> 01:13:26,560
couple years but

1861
01:13:32,229 --> 01:13:30,159
um i remembered there was a ufologist

1862
01:13:33,430 --> 01:13:32,239
that showed up and tried to talk to

1863
01:13:37,030 --> 01:13:33,440
travis and it was

1864
01:13:40,709 --> 01:13:37,040
another restriction yeah okay

1865
01:13:42,950 --> 01:13:40,719
all right but did was any did any

1866
01:13:44,950 --> 01:13:42,960
investigator come of any type at all at

1867
01:13:48,229 --> 01:13:44,960
any point that you were aware of

1868
01:13:51,510 --> 01:13:48,239
much later much clearer days later yeah

1869
01:13:54,709 --> 01:13:51,520
yeah in fact uh when i saw travis

1870
01:13:56,630 --> 01:13:54,719
i had gone down to phoenix to his

1871
01:13:59,030 --> 01:13:56,640
brother dwayne's house

1872
01:14:00,310 --> 01:13:59,040
who had who had been here during the

1873
01:14:02,709 --> 01:14:00,320
search

1874
01:14:04,229 --> 01:14:02,719
and who believed me because i mean

1875
01:14:04,870 --> 01:14:04,239
dwayne and i were actually pretty close

1876
01:14:06,950 --> 01:14:04,880
friends

1877
01:14:08,310 --> 01:14:06,960
he's somebody who worked for me you know

1878
01:14:11,030 --> 01:14:08,320
out there in the woods

1879
01:14:12,310 --> 01:14:11,040
uh and in a couple of years prior to

1880
01:14:14,550 --> 01:14:12,320
that

1881
01:14:15,350 --> 01:14:14,560
and dwayne and i were we're good buddies

1882
01:14:18,550 --> 01:14:15,360
okay

1883
01:14:20,709 --> 01:14:18,560
so when he came up the hill uh i was one

1884
01:14:24,070 --> 01:14:20,719
of the first people he

1885
01:14:25,430 --> 01:14:24,080
met up with and we went everywhere

1886
01:14:29,910 --> 01:14:25,440
together after that i mean

1887
01:14:33,669 --> 01:14:32,950
hmm yeah i i'm thinking so much in my

1888
01:14:36,790 --> 01:14:33,679
head right now

1889
01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:36,800
it's hard to concentrate sure yeah so

1890
01:14:40,390 --> 01:14:37,840
i'll i'll try

1891
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:40,400
i'll try to just um you know keep keep

1892
01:14:44,470 --> 01:14:41,360
it going

1893
01:14:45,750 --> 01:14:44,480
so and travis uh you what was the first

1894
01:14:47,030 --> 01:14:45,760
thing you said to travis when you saw

1895
01:14:50,709 --> 01:14:47,040
him do you remember that

1896
01:14:53,270 --> 01:14:50,719
yeah and i said well i said

1897
01:14:54,470 --> 01:14:53,280
you gotta tell me man what what happened

1898
01:14:55,910 --> 01:14:54,480
and he says

1899
01:14:58,470 --> 01:14:55,920
he didn't he didn't say anything for a

1900
01:15:00,870 --> 01:14:58,480
while yeah he didn't even answer me

1901
01:15:02,390 --> 01:15:00,880
and he actually i could see he was very

1902
01:15:05,750 --> 01:15:02,400
very uh

1903
01:15:07,590 --> 01:15:05,760
upset beside himself with concern all

1904
01:15:09,669 --> 01:15:07,600
over all this because he was there at

1905
01:15:13,590 --> 01:15:09,679
his brother's house

1906
01:15:15,590 --> 01:15:13,600
and he had the confusion of the

1907
01:15:18,149 --> 01:15:15,600
people trying to get the scene that i

1908
01:15:19,910 --> 01:15:18,159
mean the dwayne's phone had been ringing

1909
01:15:20,950 --> 01:15:19,920
i mean duane told me this phone had been

1910
01:15:24,630 --> 01:15:20,960
ringing

1911
01:15:28,149 --> 01:15:24,640
uh skeptics uh people

1912
01:15:30,790 --> 01:15:28,159
hectoring them uh bad mouthing them

1913
01:15:32,149 --> 01:15:30,800
uh making up a funny joke they thought

1914
01:15:34,709 --> 01:15:32,159
it was funny it wasn't funny

1915
01:15:37,430 --> 01:15:34,719
i heard some of this stuff on a thing

1916
01:15:40,870 --> 01:15:37,440
that dwayne showed me later

1917
01:15:41,430 --> 01:15:40,880
funny at all so travis had all this

1918
01:15:44,550 --> 01:15:41,440
stuff

1919
01:15:47,669 --> 01:15:44,560
uh and the media i mean just

1920
01:15:50,149 --> 01:15:47,679
people were knocking it at dwayne's door

1921
01:15:53,030 --> 01:15:50,159
and travis was just sitting back there

1922
01:15:55,910 --> 01:15:53,040
kind of fidgeting and

1923
01:15:57,030 --> 01:15:55,920
you can imagine how confused he was at

1924
01:16:00,470 --> 01:15:57,040
that point

1925
01:16:02,390 --> 01:16:00,480
and i could i mean so i didn't want to

1926
01:16:06,149 --> 01:16:02,400
press him for a whole lot

1927
01:16:07,669 --> 01:16:06,159
i talked to him briefly and then i and i

1928
01:16:10,709 --> 01:16:07,679
left

1929
01:16:17,189 --> 01:16:10,719
so did when's the first you heard

1930
01:16:21,590 --> 01:16:19,350
well he didn't even know exactly

1931
01:16:24,870 --> 01:16:21,600
everything at first

1932
01:16:26,550 --> 01:16:24,880
i mean he did but but he didn't know how

1933
01:16:26,870 --> 01:16:26,560
to express in words i don't think in

1934
01:16:29,750 --> 01:16:26,880
fact

1935
01:16:30,550 --> 01:16:29,760
he was too uh upset to really say in

1936
01:16:32,550 --> 01:16:30,560
fact

1937
01:16:35,030 --> 01:16:32,560
i heard later that the sheriff had gone

1938
01:16:36,550 --> 01:16:35,040
down there uh

1939
01:16:38,550 --> 01:16:36,560
i don't know if it was before me or

1940
01:16:40,550 --> 01:16:38,560
after me going there

1941
01:16:42,229 --> 01:16:40,560
i think it was before me so that was

1942
01:16:43,189 --> 01:16:42,239
another thing that had travis kind of

1943
01:16:46,390 --> 01:16:43,199
concerned when

1944
01:16:48,229 --> 01:16:46,400
when i showed up yes it was before me

1945
01:16:49,750 --> 01:16:48,239
i think as the sheriff heard about this

1946
01:16:53,189 --> 01:16:49,760
and they heard about it by listening

1947
01:16:56,630 --> 01:16:53,199
in on the conversation okay

1948
01:16:59,750 --> 01:16:59,430
and he is right now bigger than people

1949
01:17:01,030 --> 01:16:59,760
know

1950
01:17:05,270 --> 01:17:01,040
that's why what you're talking about a

1951
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:08,950
oh gosh anyway

1952
01:17:12,470 --> 01:17:11,590
they heard that conversation so they uh

1953
01:17:14,550 --> 01:17:12,480
so

1954
01:17:15,750 --> 01:17:14,560
gillespie just immediately hot putted it

1955
01:17:19,110 --> 01:17:15,760
down to fix

1956
01:17:21,510 --> 01:17:19,120
and met travis right at duane's house

1957
01:17:22,390 --> 01:17:21,520
and and talked to him and travis of

1958
01:17:25,510 --> 01:17:22,400
course was

1959
01:17:28,950 --> 01:17:25,520
already so distraught

1960
01:17:32,229 --> 01:17:28,960
with everything he wasn't quite able

1961
01:17:35,350 --> 01:17:32,239
in fact he made some a few mistakes okay

1962
01:17:36,470 --> 01:17:35,360
and and so and gillespie interpreted

1963
01:17:38,310 --> 01:17:36,480
that as meaning

1964
01:17:40,229 --> 01:17:38,320
uh that travis wasn't telling the truth

1965
01:17:41,590 --> 01:17:40,239
because he got some things mixed up

1966
01:17:44,149 --> 01:17:41,600
and i won't go into what all those

1967
01:17:47,270 --> 01:17:44,159
things were i know what they are but

1968
01:17:48,070 --> 01:17:47,280
but travis didn't quite have all

1969
01:17:50,229 --> 01:17:48,080
together i mean

1970
01:17:52,630 --> 01:17:50,239
he was he was under such pressure he was

1971
01:17:56,070 --> 01:17:54,550
travis was in worse shape than people

1972
01:17:59,590 --> 01:17:56,080
can even imagine

1973
01:18:01,590 --> 01:17:59,600
i like that oh

1974
01:18:02,950 --> 01:18:01,600
so he he didn't even get this the story

1975
01:18:03,510 --> 01:18:02,960
right that he that he told the sheriff

1976
01:18:05,910 --> 01:18:03,520
called us

1977
01:18:07,030 --> 01:18:05,920
i mean he told him generally but but

1978
01:18:08,709 --> 01:18:07,040
there were a couple of things that

1979
01:18:10,790 --> 01:18:08,719
weren't quite right

1980
01:18:12,149 --> 01:18:10,800
and gillespie took that to me now this

1981
01:18:15,669 --> 01:18:12,159
is all most

1982
01:18:16,709 --> 01:18:15,679
[\h__\h] you know yeah but he still

1983
01:18:19,430 --> 01:18:16,719
believed it

1984
01:18:20,870 --> 01:18:19,440
he believed us about the original event

1985
01:18:23,270 --> 01:18:20,880
but at that point he didn't really

1986
01:18:26,870 --> 01:18:23,280
believe travis

1987
01:18:28,630 --> 01:18:26,880
it was because of that wow

1988
01:18:31,350 --> 01:18:28,640
and travis was just confused i mean it

1989
01:18:34,870 --> 01:18:31,360
was it i mean what an experience

1990
01:18:37,590 --> 01:18:34,880
i i can't imagine what it was like and

1991
01:18:40,149 --> 01:18:37,600
was he checked out immediately at that

1992
01:18:41,990 --> 01:18:40,159
hospital or was that a couple days later

1993
01:18:43,590 --> 01:18:42,000
yeah well he didn't actually go to a

1994
01:18:45,590 --> 01:18:43,600
hospital that was a story that his

1995
01:18:47,750 --> 01:18:45,600
brother dwayne told the media

1996
01:18:49,510 --> 01:18:47,760
to get him off their backs because they

1997
01:18:52,229 --> 01:18:49,520
very much needed that i mean

1998
01:18:53,270 --> 01:18:52,239
yeah and they want they did a a private

1999
01:18:55,830 --> 01:18:53,280
uh

2000
01:18:57,510 --> 01:18:55,840
thing because dwayne said knew he needed

2001
01:18:58,950 --> 01:18:57,520
to get that kind of attention he needed

2002
01:19:01,189 --> 01:18:58,960
to be checked out

2003
01:19:02,070 --> 01:19:01,199
and so they they ha dwayne hired a

2004
01:19:04,790 --> 01:19:02,080
private guy

2005
01:19:05,110 --> 01:19:04,800
a private doctor and even then they did

2006
01:19:09,189 --> 01:19:05,120
it

2007
01:19:11,830 --> 01:19:09,199
like in his in his clinic office clinic

2008
01:19:13,350 --> 01:19:11,840
closet you might say it was like a

2009
01:19:15,910 --> 01:19:13,360
storeroom okay

2010
01:19:18,630 --> 01:19:15,920
because even even the the doctor didn't

2011
01:19:20,790 --> 01:19:18,640
want to uh

2012
01:19:25,270 --> 01:19:20,800
be that close to something that could be

2013
01:19:28,870 --> 01:19:28,310
uh that's it people are amazing to me i

2014
01:19:32,229 --> 01:19:28,880
mean

2015
01:19:35,590 --> 01:19:32,239
in so many ways but yeah

2016
01:19:39,189 --> 01:19:35,600
so um so

2017
01:19:41,430 --> 01:19:39,199
time goes on um and

2018
01:19:42,550 --> 01:19:41,440
you must at some point you must have

2019
01:19:44,870 --> 01:19:42,560
realized this is

2020
01:19:46,470 --> 01:19:44,880
this is a real big deal um you know i

2021
01:19:50,070 --> 01:19:46,480
mean people are really

2022
01:19:51,350 --> 01:19:50,080
making uh something huge out of this did

2023
01:19:54,630 --> 01:19:51,360
it just kind of blow up

2024
01:19:58,550 --> 01:19:54,640
and then die or was this a continuing

2025
01:20:01,669 --> 01:19:58,560
saga well okay so even sheriff gillespie

2026
01:20:04,390 --> 01:20:01,679
and ken copeland yeah will admit

2027
01:20:05,110 --> 01:20:04,400
that they were beleaguered with phone

2028
01:20:07,830 --> 01:20:05,120
calls from

2029
01:20:09,350 --> 01:20:07,840
all over the world sure before travis

2030
01:20:12,229 --> 01:20:09,360
even showed up

2031
01:20:14,149 --> 01:20:12,239
wow before the polygraph tests even i

2032
01:20:15,350 --> 01:20:14,159
mean this thing hit the international

2033
01:20:20,229 --> 01:20:15,360
news

2034
01:20:22,149 --> 01:20:20,239
like the very next day practically like

2035
01:20:24,070 --> 01:20:22,159
actually the let's see the first phone

2036
01:20:25,910 --> 01:20:24,080
call they remembered

2037
01:20:29,110 --> 01:20:25,920
yeah it was like a day and a half later

2038
01:20:32,629 --> 01:20:29,120
that's it's that quick

2039
01:20:37,990 --> 01:20:32,639
wow wow and when did

2040
01:20:42,070 --> 01:20:40,629
uh even even cy gilson has mistakenly

2041
01:20:44,709 --> 01:20:42,080
called him glass

2042
01:20:46,629 --> 01:20:44,719
philip glass his name is class like last

2043
01:20:47,830 --> 01:20:46,639
year like the class act and now i make

2044
01:20:50,550 --> 01:20:47,840
fun of that you know

2045
01:20:51,910 --> 01:20:50,560
yeah the class act yeah i have i have

2046
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:51,920
someone else that talk with the last

2047
01:20:54,629 --> 01:20:52,320
name

2048
01:20:55,750 --> 01:20:54,639
uh glass so i get that i get it mixed up

2049
01:21:01,189 --> 01:20:55,760
yeah

2050
01:21:02,229 --> 01:21:01,199
so but um i i understand when i talked

2051
01:21:05,189 --> 01:21:02,239
to steve

2052
01:21:05,910 --> 01:21:05,199
pearce uh a number of years ago he said

2053
01:21:08,709 --> 01:21:05,920
that

2054
01:21:09,189 --> 01:21:08,719
he was offered i believe a some i want

2055
01:21:12,709 --> 01:21:09,199
to say

2056
01:21:14,229 --> 01:21:12,719
either 10 or 20 000 dollars if he 10

2057
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:14,239
yeah ten thousand which was still a lot

2058
01:21:16,310 --> 01:21:15,840
of money at the time if he claimed it

2059
01:21:19,830 --> 01:21:16,320
was a

2060
01:21:22,229 --> 01:21:19,840
a hoax yeah but he had to do that

2061
01:21:23,270 --> 01:21:22,239
in order to get the money and obviously

2062
01:21:25,910 --> 01:21:23,280
he couldn't

2063
01:21:28,229 --> 01:21:25,920
i mean i was worried for a while that

2064
01:21:29,590 --> 01:21:28,239
cause he told me about this too

2065
01:21:31,510 --> 01:21:29,600
and i was worried for a while that he

2066
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:31,520
might take it because he was desperate i

2067
01:21:37,189 --> 01:21:33,920
mean he was hard up

2068
01:21:39,750 --> 01:21:37,199
and and philip knew that i'm sure yes

2069
01:21:41,430 --> 01:21:39,760
obviously so he was he was doing his

2070
01:21:43,669 --> 01:21:41,440
best to pry into this and

2071
01:21:45,270 --> 01:21:43,679
like that in any way he could because he

2072
01:21:50,070 --> 01:21:45,280
was

2073
01:21:52,070 --> 01:21:50,080
way

2074
01:21:53,510 --> 01:21:52,080
he would do anything he would make stuff

2075
01:21:55,110 --> 01:21:53,520
up if he had to

2076
01:21:56,790 --> 01:21:55,120
yeah yeah there's a lot of stories

2077
01:21:58,390 --> 01:21:56,800
unfortunately but i mean he's not around

2078
01:22:00,709 --> 01:21:58,400
to defend himself but there's a lot of

2079
01:22:01,270 --> 01:22:00,719
stories uh we do have a question i just

2080
01:22:03,910 --> 01:22:01,280
wanted to

2081
01:22:04,550 --> 01:22:03,920
ask it it's up on the screen uh was

2082
01:22:08,950 --> 01:22:04,560
there

2083
01:22:11,430 --> 01:22:08,960
from representatives of the air force

2084
01:22:14,629 --> 01:22:11,440
cia or any other government

2085
01:22:16,790 --> 01:22:14,639
uh agencies oh yeah yeah

2086
01:22:18,229 --> 01:22:16,800
how did that you do that about 12 hours

2087
01:22:21,590 --> 01:22:18,239
on this show because

2088
01:22:21,910 --> 01:22:21,600
you are getting that i mean i know but i

2089
01:22:24,229 --> 01:22:21,920
mean

2090
01:22:25,030 --> 01:22:24,239
the thing is just amazing things and

2091
01:22:28,229 --> 01:22:25,040
truthfully

2092
01:22:31,110 --> 01:22:28,239
absolutely true provable

2093
01:22:32,310 --> 01:22:31,120
but you don't have that much time so

2094
01:22:35,350 --> 01:22:32,320
i'll give you kind of a

2095
01:22:37,750 --> 01:22:35,360
general explanation yeah i have to

2096
01:22:39,590 --> 01:22:37,760
say this in a few words because i can't

2097
01:22:41,910 --> 01:22:39,600
even broach the subject without

2098
01:22:43,270 --> 01:22:41,920
getting into it to some degree but

2099
01:22:46,629 --> 01:22:43,280
anyway

2100
01:22:48,950 --> 01:22:46,639
in in 1976 okay

2101
01:22:50,149 --> 01:22:48,960
i always say this never happened to

2102
01:22:52,709 --> 01:22:50,159
travis

2103
01:22:54,790 --> 01:22:52,719
the skeptic's phil class took me to be

2104
01:22:59,590 --> 01:22:54,800
the ringleader of a hoax

2105
01:23:02,709 --> 01:23:01,590
he only talked to me he never talked to

2106
01:23:06,629 --> 01:23:02,719
travis

2107
01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:06,639
okay and uh the very next

2108
01:23:13,510 --> 01:23:09,760
i mean like early in 1976

2109
01:23:14,950 --> 01:23:13,520
after this happened i had a federal

2110
01:23:18,229 --> 01:23:14,960
criminal investigator

2111
01:23:22,149 --> 01:23:18,239
show up right at my doorstep

2112
01:23:24,229 --> 01:23:22,159
and he had eight indictments for me

2113
01:23:26,709 --> 01:23:24,239
all those indictments were absolutely

2114
01:23:29,830 --> 01:23:26,719
phony absolutely

2115
01:23:32,470 --> 01:23:29,840
and it took me a month okay

2116
01:23:33,350 --> 01:23:32,480
of talking to this guy and and by the

2117
01:23:35,750 --> 01:23:33,360
way

2118
01:23:38,550 --> 01:23:35,760
he spent that month checking out

2119
01:23:42,070 --> 01:23:38,560
everything i mean he checked out

2120
01:23:43,750 --> 01:23:42,080
everything all my friend all my enemies

2121
01:23:46,149 --> 01:23:43,760
which i didn't really have any but i

2122
01:23:47,590 --> 01:23:46,159
found out there were some

2123
01:23:49,430 --> 01:23:47,600
there were some that didn't believe that

2124
01:23:51,110 --> 01:23:49,440
this happened to us at all

2125
01:23:52,870 --> 01:23:51,120
and of course on the basis of that they

2126
01:23:56,550 --> 01:23:52,880
would say other things

2127
01:23:59,669 --> 01:23:56,560
people make things up you know anyway

2128
01:24:02,629 --> 01:23:59,679
uh the bottom line is those eight

2129
01:24:03,270 --> 01:24:02,639
indictments that were already made you

2130
01:24:05,750 --> 01:24:03,280
know they

2131
01:24:07,750 --> 01:24:05,760
you know what an indictment is right

2132
01:24:10,390 --> 01:24:07,760
yeah you're indicted for a crime you're

2133
01:24:12,550 --> 01:24:10,400
yeah they an indictment is something

2134
01:24:14,709 --> 01:24:12,560
they go to court for you know the

2135
01:24:16,390 --> 01:24:14,719
attorneys and whoever they go to court

2136
01:24:18,950 --> 01:24:16,400
and they pre-decide

2137
01:24:22,070 --> 01:24:18,960
that you're guilty of something and that

2138
01:24:24,470 --> 01:24:22,080
becomes an indictment okay

2139
01:24:25,350 --> 01:24:24,480
so they had already pre-decided well i

2140
01:24:30,470 --> 01:24:25,360
know who pretty

2141
01:24:33,189 --> 01:24:30,480
dude the pre-deciding felt class

2142
01:24:34,390 --> 01:24:33,199
now this guy didn't introduce himself as

2143
01:24:36,229 --> 01:24:34,400
somebody who

2144
01:24:37,910 --> 01:24:36,239
had been sent there by philip class of

2145
01:24:41,750 --> 01:24:37,920
course they're not going to do that

2146
01:24:44,149 --> 01:24:41,760
okay but aidan diamonds well

2147
01:24:46,070 --> 01:24:44,159
just luckily enough and again somebody

2148
01:24:48,310 --> 01:24:46,080
put me on autopilot i swear to god

2149
01:24:52,149 --> 01:24:48,320
because

2150
01:24:55,270 --> 01:24:52,159
the day the guy showed up okay

2151
01:24:56,149 --> 01:24:55,280
was that a family reunion okay he came

2152
01:24:59,350 --> 01:24:56,159
to me personally

2153
01:25:01,350 --> 01:24:59,360
okay but it was at a family reunion

2154
01:25:02,950 --> 01:25:01,360
and one of the one of the one of the

2155
01:25:05,189 --> 01:25:02,960
indictments in fact

2156
01:25:07,910 --> 01:25:05,199
the indictment that everything was based

2157
01:25:09,030 --> 01:25:07,920
on was that i had created a fictitious

2158
01:25:11,990 --> 01:25:09,040
person

2159
01:25:14,310 --> 01:25:12,000
okay for the for the supposed purpose of

2160
01:25:17,510 --> 01:25:14,320
bid manipulation

2161
01:25:19,189 --> 01:25:17,520
and i mean here you

2162
01:25:21,030 --> 01:25:19,199
you talk about coincidence this couldn't

2163
01:25:25,030 --> 01:25:21,040
possibly be a coincidence

2164
01:25:28,229 --> 01:25:25,040
here this guy is from washington dc

2165
01:25:29,430 --> 01:25:28,239
he shows up at this reunion which was on

2166
01:25:33,110 --> 01:25:29,440
a saturday

2167
01:25:35,030 --> 01:25:33,120
okay a family reunion and my brother who

2168
01:25:40,310 --> 01:25:35,040
lives in mexico most the time

2169
01:25:42,229 --> 01:25:40,320
was there okay and i i said charles

2170
01:25:44,550 --> 01:25:42,239
come over here and show this guy who you

2171
01:25:45,910 --> 01:25:44,560
are so my brother of course he lives in

2172
01:25:49,189 --> 01:25:45,920
mexico but

2173
01:25:51,270 --> 01:25:49,199
most of the time he really he uh and and

2174
01:25:52,709 --> 01:25:51,280
he doesn't even normally even use a

2175
01:25:55,910 --> 01:25:52,719
driver's license

2176
01:25:58,550 --> 01:25:55,920
but but yeah he had it with him another

2177
01:26:00,149 --> 01:25:58,560
another coincidence i can't believe

2178
01:26:05,270 --> 01:26:00,159
and he showed it to the guy and the guy

2179
01:26:12,870 --> 01:26:08,550
oh it's just so damn funny all of it

2180
01:26:17,910 --> 01:26:15,990
well and but i mean but it's

2181
01:26:19,590 --> 01:26:17,920
by the fact that my brother proved him

2182
01:26:19,990 --> 01:26:19,600
that that all these indictments were

2183
01:26:22,310 --> 01:26:20,000
just

2184
01:26:24,950 --> 01:26:22,320
nonsense okay the guy spent a whole

2185
01:26:27,270 --> 01:26:24,960
month there

2186
01:26:28,149 --> 01:26:27,280
almost cat almost camped out on my lawn

2187
01:26:29,669 --> 01:26:28,159
actually

2188
01:26:31,750 --> 01:26:29,679
i think that's the way travis put it in

2189
01:26:33,590 --> 01:26:31,760
his book camped out on my lawn but he

2190
01:26:35,030 --> 01:26:33,600
went camped on my lawn he was actually

2191
01:26:37,910 --> 01:26:35,040
over in springerville

2192
01:26:38,470 --> 01:26:37,920
and a hotel room but but but he was over

2193
01:26:41,430 --> 01:26:38,480
here

2194
01:26:42,709 --> 01:26:41,440
you know in snowflake and hebrew and

2195
01:26:45,189 --> 01:26:42,719
this whole area

2196
01:26:50,709 --> 01:26:45,199
are checking me out for an entire month

2197
01:26:53,590 --> 01:26:50,719
actually about 38 days and a half

2198
01:26:55,669 --> 01:26:53,600
i mean yeah that's over him but

2199
01:26:59,110 --> 01:26:55,679
nevertheless he was here

2200
01:27:02,950 --> 01:26:59,120
and uh and what made him finally stop

2201
01:27:05,510 --> 01:27:02,960
harassing you i don't know

2202
01:27:06,310 --> 01:27:05,520
uh he actually asked me to sign a

2203
01:27:08,629 --> 01:27:06,320
statement

2204
01:27:11,750 --> 01:27:08,639
okay he said i gotta go down and get on

2205
01:27:18,390 --> 01:27:14,790
okay this this statement was like six

2206
01:27:20,390 --> 01:27:18,400
pages long so i had to read it you know

2207
01:27:22,310 --> 01:27:20,400
and i had to read it carefully so i

2208
01:27:24,470 --> 01:27:22,320
couldn't answer it right at the time

2209
01:27:26,709 --> 01:27:24,480
but after reading it i thought what a

2210
01:27:29,430 --> 01:27:26,719
bunch of nonsense

2211
01:27:31,590 --> 01:27:29,440
it was a pre-loaded it was pre-loaded

2212
01:27:34,310 --> 01:27:31,600
with questions that if i answered them

2213
01:27:36,310 --> 01:27:34,320
they would have me right there with the

2214
01:27:39,350 --> 01:27:36,320
typical fill class thing to do and a

2215
01:27:42,390 --> 01:27:39,360
typical government thing to do

2216
01:27:44,550 --> 01:27:42,400
so i took the time to to

2217
01:27:46,550 --> 01:27:44,560
write out another thing which was

2218
01:27:49,510 --> 01:27:46,560
actually about eight pages long

2219
01:27:50,709 --> 01:27:49,520
and i explained everything to him

2220
01:27:53,669 --> 01:27:50,719
including the fact

2221
01:27:55,750 --> 01:27:53,679
that the forest service oh gosh this

2222
01:27:57,990 --> 01:27:55,760
gets involved i i can't get into that

2223
01:27:58,790 --> 01:27:58,000
let's just put it that way for for time

2224
01:28:01,910 --> 01:27:58,800
sake

2225
01:28:04,950 --> 01:28:01,920
uh the guy went away with nothing

2226
01:28:06,629 --> 01:28:04,960
and i i never went to prison i never

2227
01:28:07,910 --> 01:28:06,639
went to jail i would never even put in

2228
01:28:09,830 --> 01:28:07,920
court okay

2229
01:28:11,189 --> 01:28:09,840
wow yeah because it was all phony to

2230
01:28:14,390 --> 01:28:11,199
start with

2231
01:28:15,270 --> 01:28:14,400
so it was just uh basically to uh it

2232
01:28:18,310 --> 01:28:15,280
sounds like

2233
01:28:20,709 --> 01:28:18,320
um

2234
01:28:21,669 --> 01:28:20,719
all probably and you're probably right

2235
01:28:24,550 --> 01:28:21,679
about

2236
01:28:25,750 --> 01:28:24,560
uh philip uh being behind it because i

2237
01:28:27,510 --> 01:28:25,760
understand he was

2238
01:28:28,950 --> 01:28:27,520
pretty pretty creative i've heard a lot

2239
01:28:34,310 --> 01:28:28,960
of

2240
01:28:36,310 --> 01:28:34,320
creative he is

2241
01:28:37,350 --> 01:28:36,320
we're opening up of the lines but i want

2242
01:28:39,590 --> 01:28:37,360
to tell uh

2243
01:28:40,470 --> 01:28:39,600
wanted to tell the uh people listening

2244
01:28:45,510 --> 01:28:40,480
right now

2245
01:28:48,310 --> 01:28:45,520
um that number is 855-472-5483

2246
01:28:50,390 --> 01:28:48,320
and the first caller in uh will get the

2247
01:28:53,110 --> 01:28:50,400
free ticket to the live stream

2248
01:28:54,550 --> 01:28:53,120
virtual hunt and music fest and again

2249
01:28:57,110 --> 01:28:54,560
that's october 29th

2250
01:28:59,350 --> 01:28:57,120
through november 1st and bill will

2251
01:29:01,350 --> 01:28:59,360
answer the phone over there

2252
01:29:02,950 --> 01:29:01,360
and uh he will he will get all your

2253
01:29:04,310 --> 01:29:02,960
information to get that ticket to you so

2254
01:29:05,669 --> 01:29:04,320
first caller

2255
01:29:06,870 --> 01:29:05,679
but the only problem is you're going to

2256
01:29:07,590 --> 01:29:06,880
have to stay in you're going to have to

2257
01:29:10,070 --> 01:29:07,600
ask to

2258
01:29:11,990 --> 01:29:10,080
ask our guest a question and we already

2259
01:29:14,550 --> 01:29:12,000
have someone in

2260
01:29:16,070 --> 01:29:14,560
so uh bill's working on that now so we

2261
01:29:16,629 --> 01:29:16,080
are gonna take uh we're gonna take

2262
01:29:17,830 --> 01:29:16,639
callers

2263
01:29:20,470 --> 01:29:17,840
and again that number is up on the

2264
01:29:23,590 --> 01:29:20,480
screen eight five five four seven two

2265
01:29:26,790 --> 01:29:23,600
five four eight three um

2266
01:29:29,430 --> 01:29:26,800
so i'm as the years

2267
01:29:30,709 --> 01:29:29,440
go by i know that you you know we we

2268
01:29:32,070 --> 01:29:30,719
wanted to talk a little bit about the

2269
01:29:33,030 --> 01:29:32,080
book you're writing and all that and i

2270
01:29:34,870 --> 01:29:33,040
don't want to

2271
01:29:37,510 --> 01:29:34,880
uh you know i know like you said you

2272
01:29:39,189 --> 01:29:37,520
could do 12 hours on this

2273
01:29:41,030 --> 01:29:39,199
but we want to make sure that we leave a

2274
01:29:42,550 --> 01:29:41,040
little time for your book i did want to

2275
01:29:42,870 --> 01:29:42,560
ask you about the phoenix lights because

2276
01:30:01,110 --> 01:29:42,880
i

2277
01:30:04,229 --> 01:30:01,120
some more background

2278
01:30:06,950 --> 01:30:04,239
oh yeah as a matter of fact shoot

2279
01:30:07,590 --> 01:30:06,960
again you need 12 hours but i'll try to

2280
01:30:10,629 --> 01:30:07,600
go through this

2281
01:30:11,189 --> 01:30:10,639
very briefly uh the guy who played my

2282
01:30:15,510 --> 01:30:11,199
part

2283
01:30:19,350 --> 01:30:15,520
robert patrick actually called

2284
01:30:22,790 --> 01:30:19,360
paramount and travis had told them

2285
01:30:24,709 --> 01:30:22,800
gosh i i have to open some cans of worms

2286
01:30:27,910 --> 01:30:24,719
here to even talk about it

2287
01:30:31,270 --> 01:30:27,920
uh they thought

2288
01:30:32,950 --> 01:30:31,280
because travis told them this that i was

2289
01:30:33,990 --> 01:30:32,960
a hermit living up in the woods and i

2290
01:30:37,669 --> 01:30:34,000
didn't even want to talk

2291
01:30:38,550 --> 01:30:37,679
about it now i understand why travis did

2292
01:30:40,870 --> 01:30:38,560
that

2293
01:30:41,910 --> 01:30:40,880
he didn't well he wouldn't bother you he

2294
01:30:44,229 --> 01:30:41,920
no because

2295
01:30:45,510 --> 01:30:44,239
he doesn't want people he didn't want me

2296
01:30:49,030 --> 01:30:45,520
specifically

2297
01:30:51,189 --> 01:30:49,040
to be standing in his limelight okay oh

2298
01:30:52,550 --> 01:30:51,199
like say i gotta open up some cans of

2299
01:30:55,189 --> 01:30:52,560
worms here to even talk

2300
01:30:56,790 --> 01:30:55,199
about it yeah okay but at some point i

2301
01:30:59,430 --> 01:30:56,800
have to say things that

2302
01:31:00,629 --> 01:30:59,440
i know travis isn't gonna like but it's

2303
01:31:03,910 --> 01:31:00,639
the truth

2304
01:31:06,229 --> 01:31:03,920
anyway robert patrick had to find me

2305
01:31:07,430 --> 01:31:06,239
and he and he called all over for me

2306
01:31:08,709 --> 01:31:07,440
because he wanted to do a character

2307
01:31:12,310 --> 01:31:08,719
sketch

2308
01:31:13,990 --> 01:31:12,320
he had gone to snowflake and

2309
01:31:15,590 --> 01:31:14,000
at least seen travis but i don't think

2310
01:31:17,590 --> 01:31:15,600
he went in because

2311
01:31:19,830 --> 01:31:17,600
well i don't know why i went in actually

2312
01:31:20,790 --> 01:31:19,840
but but he saw travis working in his

2313
01:31:23,110 --> 01:31:20,800
yard

2314
01:31:24,629 --> 01:31:23,120
and he went on but he was specifically

2315
01:31:26,229 --> 01:31:24,639
looking for me

2316
01:31:27,590 --> 01:31:26,239
but he couldn't find me he couldn't find

2317
01:31:30,070 --> 01:31:27,600
anybody who knew where i live well i

2318
01:31:33,750 --> 01:31:30,080
lived up here and find top and sign

2319
01:31:36,390 --> 01:31:33,760
and uh we're still there anyway he uh

2320
01:31:38,149 --> 01:31:36,400
robert patrick started looking for me

2321
01:31:41,669 --> 01:31:38,159
calling everybody okay

2322
01:31:43,110 --> 01:31:41,679
he finally managed filtering down

2323
01:31:43,990 --> 01:31:43,120
through whoever i don't know who ellie

2324
01:31:46,550 --> 01:31:44,000
called but he finally

2325
01:31:47,910 --> 01:31:46,560
ended up calling my dad who was alive at

2326
01:31:50,470 --> 01:31:47,920
the time

2327
01:31:51,669 --> 01:31:50,480
and uh and my dad called me because i

2328
01:31:57,990 --> 01:31:51,679
had a phone

2329
01:32:01,750 --> 01:31:58,000
okay everything and um

2330
01:32:02,310 --> 01:32:01,760
oh my gosh anyway he robert patrick and

2331
01:32:16,950 --> 01:32:02,320
i

2332
01:32:20,950 --> 01:32:16,960
my show

2333
01:32:23,990 --> 01:32:20,960
okay oh wow yeah and uh he hasn't

2334
01:32:26,229 --> 01:32:24,000
really responded you know uh he

2335
01:32:27,110 --> 01:32:26,239
he uh i don't know i don't know why he

2336
01:32:29,750 --> 01:32:27,120
won't verify

2337
01:32:30,550 --> 01:32:29,760
okay i don't because he hadn't done it

2338
01:32:33,590 --> 01:32:30,560
and so

2339
01:32:34,629 --> 01:32:33,600
i don't know but uh we know robert

2340
01:32:37,430 --> 01:32:34,639
patrick and i did

2341
01:32:40,950 --> 01:32:37,440
all kinds of shows together in fact when

2342
01:32:43,990 --> 01:32:40,960
we were on the uh what was it

2343
01:32:44,470 --> 01:32:44,000
good morning america i said i said right

2344
01:32:46,149 --> 01:32:44,480
there

2345
01:32:48,149 --> 01:32:46,159
while we were being interviewed i said

2346
01:32:50,709 --> 01:32:48,159
you know robert you play me better than

2347
01:32:53,990 --> 01:32:52,709
because he really did i mean i mean he's

2348
01:32:56,470 --> 01:32:54,000
he's a very

2349
01:32:57,750 --> 01:32:56,480
good actor i mean is that him right

2350
01:33:00,470 --> 01:32:57,760
there that's him isn't it

2351
01:33:01,510 --> 01:33:00,480
him right there yeah yeah on youtube you

2352
01:33:04,149 --> 01:33:01,520
can get to see that

2353
01:33:04,950 --> 01:33:04,159
hey we're ready to uh bring a caller in

2354
01:33:09,510 --> 01:33:04,960
if you are

2355
01:33:11,590 --> 01:33:09,520
i am ready all right and uh we have uh

2356
01:33:13,110 --> 01:33:11,600
john calling from california and you are

2357
01:33:15,830 --> 01:33:13,120
the winner of the ticket

2358
01:33:17,510 --> 01:33:15,840
uh welcome to the show john thank you

2359
01:33:19,189 --> 01:33:17,520
thank you thank you for the uh

2360
01:33:21,110 --> 01:33:19,199
for the prize that's awesome i really

2361
01:33:22,310 --> 01:33:21,120
appreciate it martin oh you bet it's

2362
01:33:25,590 --> 01:33:22,320
nothing to do with me but

2363
01:33:27,669 --> 01:33:25,600
you're very welcome thank you

2364
01:33:28,790 --> 01:33:27,679
um i just wanted to ask mike a question

2365
01:33:30,709 --> 01:33:28,800
if that's okay

2366
01:33:32,070 --> 01:33:30,719
yeah oh yeah yeah he's right he can hear

2367
01:33:36,070 --> 01:33:32,080
you yep go ahead

2368
01:33:39,030 --> 01:33:36,080
yes hey mike how are you buddy um i

2369
01:33:39,430 --> 01:33:39,040
i just have uh two questions uh how how

2370
01:33:41,189 --> 01:33:39,440
uh

2371
01:33:43,270 --> 01:33:41,199
how good is your recollection of what

2372
01:33:45,110 --> 01:33:43,280
the ship looked like when it uh

2373
01:33:47,189 --> 01:33:45,120
you know fired the beam at travis do you

2374
01:33:49,110 --> 01:33:47,199
do you still kind of have a good

2375
01:33:50,550 --> 01:33:49,120
memory of that i mean i i can't imagine

2376
01:33:50,870 --> 01:33:50,560
everything how many hours have you

2377
01:33:54,229 --> 01:33:50,880
gotten

2378
01:33:57,270 --> 01:33:54,239
it pretty vivid so it's

2379
01:34:00,629 --> 01:33:57,280
much more so now that that was i mean

2380
01:34:02,229 --> 01:34:00,639
and it's accurate i mean uh i already

2381
01:34:04,070 --> 01:34:02,239
explained all that tomorrow

2382
01:34:06,229 --> 01:34:04,080
uh can i just break in here for a second

2383
01:34:09,669 --> 01:34:06,239
please yeah i want to ask you

2384
01:34:12,870 --> 01:34:09,679
uh mike when you see your artwork

2385
01:34:13,189 --> 01:34:12,880
as wonderful i think it's absolutely uh

2386
01:34:15,910 --> 01:34:13,199
very

2387
01:34:16,790 --> 01:34:15,920
it's photo realism uh when you i see

2388
01:34:19,830 --> 01:34:16,800
your artwork

2389
01:34:20,950 --> 01:34:19,840
have you painted what you saw that craft

2390
01:34:23,590 --> 01:34:20,960
look like

2391
01:34:25,189 --> 01:34:23,600
yeah i'd like to see that i already told

2392
01:34:26,070 --> 01:34:25,199
you that but i didn't send it to you

2393
01:34:28,629 --> 01:34:26,080
because

2394
01:34:30,070 --> 01:34:28,639
uh i thought maybe you just wanted a few

2395
01:34:30,790 --> 01:34:30,080
things in fact you didn't even ask for

2396
01:34:34,149 --> 01:34:30,800
anything

2397
01:34:37,350 --> 01:34:34,159
you asked for my picture you know

2398
01:34:40,470 --> 01:34:37,360
something updated you know but uh

2399
01:34:43,350 --> 01:34:40,480
i i yeah i sent you a few things

2400
01:34:44,950 --> 01:34:43,360
yeah well i i hadn't realized that you

2401
01:34:46,950 --> 01:34:44,960
were actually a painter and

2402
01:34:48,390 --> 01:34:46,960
so yeah um if you don't mind sending

2403
01:34:48,790 --> 01:34:48,400
that along i will put that in the show

2404
01:34:52,550 --> 01:34:48,800
notes

2405
01:34:53,030 --> 01:34:52,560
afterwards so uh yeah i can do all kinds

2406
01:34:55,430 --> 01:34:53,040
of things

2407
01:34:56,390 --> 01:34:55,440
it just depends on what you want yeah

2408
01:34:59,590 --> 01:34:56,400
that's okay

2409
01:35:01,189 --> 01:34:59,600
um so yeah if you don't mind uh uh you

2410
01:35:02,950 --> 01:35:01,199
basically i guess you basically answered

2411
01:35:05,189 --> 01:35:02,960
that you just had a real clear

2412
01:35:06,390 --> 01:35:05,199
uh so i would call uh john i would tell

2413
01:35:08,070 --> 01:35:06,400
you to um

2414
01:35:09,830 --> 01:35:08,080
check the show notes i'll try to get

2415
01:35:11,669 --> 01:35:09,840
that in there within a day or two

2416
01:35:14,149 --> 01:35:11,679
and you'll see uh more accurate what was

2417
01:35:16,310 --> 01:35:14,159
your second question john

2418
01:35:18,070 --> 01:35:16,320
uh just real quick i i listened to

2419
01:35:19,270 --> 01:35:18,080
travis on an interview that he did

2420
01:35:21,189 --> 01:35:19,280
i don't know how long ago a couple

2421
01:35:23,430 --> 01:35:21,199
months ago he mentioned that

2422
01:35:25,350 --> 01:35:23,440
it's possibly in the works that there

2423
01:35:27,750 --> 01:35:25,360
there actually may there actually may be

2424
01:35:30,149 --> 01:35:27,760
a possibility of redoing

2425
01:35:32,149 --> 01:35:30,159
fire in the sky or the story uh in a

2426
01:35:34,550 --> 01:35:32,159
more accurate way since fire in the sky

2427
01:35:36,629 --> 01:35:34,560
took a lot of liberties with the truth

2428
01:35:38,310 --> 01:35:36,639
and mike have you heard anything along

2429
01:35:39,669 --> 01:35:38,320
that lines it would be nice to see a

2430
01:35:41,189 --> 01:35:39,679
real accurate especially after

2431
01:35:42,950 --> 01:35:41,199
everything that's happened last couple

2432
01:35:45,910 --> 01:35:42,960
years with the tic tac and all the other

2433
01:35:47,510 --> 01:35:45,920
interests to see this story told bright

2434
01:35:49,990 --> 01:35:47,520
well what i'm going to tell you is

2435
01:35:52,550 --> 01:35:50,000
probably disappointing

2436
01:35:54,070 --> 01:35:52,560
i'm sure it is to travis too but i know

2437
01:35:57,109 --> 01:35:54,080
all the people that he

2438
01:35:59,830 --> 01:35:57,119
has been in contact with uh one of them

2439
01:36:03,109 --> 01:35:59,840
lives right up here in my neighborhood

2440
01:36:07,030 --> 01:36:03,119
and he uh put this way

2441
01:36:09,350 --> 01:36:07,040
he's shining travis on okay

2442
01:36:11,270 --> 01:36:09,360
i just don't believe that any such film

2443
01:36:12,870 --> 01:36:11,280
will ever be made

2444
01:36:14,550 --> 01:36:12,880
because i don't believe the people who

2445
01:36:17,750 --> 01:36:14,560
are claiming this

2446
01:36:20,629 --> 01:36:17,760
are legitimate oh that yeah

2447
01:36:22,229 --> 01:36:20,639
they're in movies and stuff but not you

2448
01:36:23,669 --> 01:36:22,239
know just because somebody takes

2449
01:36:25,750 --> 01:36:23,679
home movies on their old eight

2450
01:36:28,550 --> 01:36:25,760
millimeter camera

2451
01:36:29,750 --> 01:36:28,560
doesn't mean they're in the movies okay

2452
01:36:34,229 --> 01:36:29,760
and i'm exaggerating

2453
01:36:39,590 --> 01:36:37,910
it will be yeah it will be done in in a

2454
01:36:41,350 --> 01:36:39,600
correct way for you guys so that the

2455
01:36:42,149 --> 01:36:41,360
story the actual story kind of i won't

2456
01:36:44,310 --> 01:36:42,159
tell you this

2457
01:36:45,750 --> 01:36:44,320
everybody i think there are two things

2458
01:36:47,109 --> 01:36:45,760
that exist i don't know if you've seen

2459
01:36:50,550 --> 01:36:47,119
them

2460
01:36:55,510 --> 01:36:50,560
called a

2461
01:37:01,510 --> 01:36:58,870
yeah just just paranormal um this

2462
01:37:02,870 --> 01:37:01,520
the episode was uh the abduction called

2463
01:37:05,270 --> 01:37:02,880
the abduction

2464
01:37:06,550 --> 01:37:05,280
and and normally that program would

2465
01:37:08,390 --> 01:37:06,560
would air for

2466
01:37:10,310 --> 01:37:08,400
for one hour they took an hour and a

2467
01:37:13,510 --> 01:37:10,320
half but they basically

2468
01:37:14,870 --> 01:37:13,520
redid what paramount should have done in

2469
01:37:17,669 --> 01:37:14,880
the first place

2470
01:37:19,990 --> 01:37:17,679
it was extremely accurate i mean right

2471
01:37:22,070 --> 01:37:20,000
down to the wire practically i mean

2472
01:37:23,830 --> 01:37:22,080
obviously you can't do any kind of a

2473
01:37:25,270 --> 01:37:23,840
thing like that and be precisely

2474
01:37:28,310 --> 01:37:25,280
accurate

2475
01:37:30,470 --> 01:37:28,320
but uh that was very good

2476
01:37:32,310 --> 01:37:30,480
and i did see that i think i did see

2477
01:37:33,430 --> 01:37:32,320
that it was it was very well done it was

2478
01:37:36,950 --> 01:37:33,440
uh closer to the

2479
01:37:39,430 --> 01:37:36,960
to the truth i thought well way closer

2480
01:37:41,189 --> 01:37:39,440
thanks i really appreciate your uh

2481
01:37:42,229 --> 01:37:41,199
you're uh telling the story again it's

2482
01:37:44,550 --> 01:37:42,239
amazing it's uh

2483
01:37:46,870 --> 01:37:44,560
it's really one of the best uh things

2484
01:37:49,750 --> 01:37:46,880
that most amazing things i've ever

2485
01:37:52,310 --> 01:37:49,760
ever read or heard of so i support me

2486
01:37:56,870 --> 01:37:55,590
yeah thanks for the call john and

2487
01:37:59,030 --> 01:37:56,880
we actually have another call if you're

2488
01:38:01,030 --> 01:37:59,040
ready for that one sure

2489
01:38:02,070 --> 01:38:01,040
all right we have uh kevin calling from

2490
01:38:03,910 --> 01:38:02,080
augusta georgia

2491
01:38:05,510 --> 01:38:03,920
i know right where that is how you doing

2492
01:38:07,669 --> 01:38:05,520
kevin

2493
01:38:08,550 --> 01:38:07,679
great how are you doing martin i'm doing

2494
01:38:09,990 --> 01:38:08,560
well isn't

2495
01:38:12,390 --> 01:38:10,000
i might have that wrong isn't that where

2496
01:38:15,510 --> 01:38:12,400
stone mountain is

2497
01:38:17,510 --> 01:38:15,520
no that's over towards atlanta

2498
01:38:19,109 --> 01:38:17,520
i know i've been to augusta my family's

2499
01:38:21,350 --> 01:38:19,119
from my healthcare

2500
01:38:22,950 --> 01:38:21,360
my family's from uh georgia lagrange

2501
01:38:25,910 --> 01:38:22,960
georgia and

2502
01:38:27,510 --> 01:38:25,920
uh macon and all that is a very

2503
01:38:29,990 --> 01:38:27,520
beautiful place

2504
01:38:31,350 --> 01:38:30,000
yeah how about that so welcome to the

2505
01:38:35,109 --> 01:38:31,360
show you have a question for

2506
01:38:37,590 --> 01:38:35,119
uh for mike rogers yeah i do mike um

2507
01:38:39,430 --> 01:38:37,600
i i'm really interested when you you you

2508
01:38:43,030 --> 01:38:39,440
told us that you got

2509
01:38:44,070 --> 01:38:43,040
um grand jury you got approached by a

2510
01:38:46,229 --> 01:38:44,080
federal agent

2511
01:38:47,830 --> 01:38:46,239
uh with something from the grand jury do

2512
01:38:49,830 --> 01:38:47,840
you remember

2513
01:38:52,310 --> 01:38:49,840
was did they hand you did they give you

2514
01:38:54,149 --> 01:38:52,320
paperwork i mean what was up with that

2515
01:38:55,430 --> 01:38:54,159
they never gave me paperwork but he

2516
01:39:05,430 --> 01:38:55,440
showed it to me

2517
01:39:05,440 --> 01:39:10,550
who happened to be my brother okay

2518
01:39:15,750 --> 01:39:13,669
i'm sorry i can't i just

2519
01:39:19,189 --> 01:39:15,760
i just this stuff is just all so funny

2520
01:39:23,990 --> 01:39:21,750
yeah and so i mean i you know i worked

2521
01:39:25,189 --> 01:39:24,000
in federal law enforcement for 30 years

2522
01:39:28,310 --> 01:39:25,199
and um

2523
01:39:28,870 --> 01:39:28,320
i've i've never seen it go down that way

2524
01:39:31,189 --> 01:39:28,880
i mean

2525
01:39:32,070 --> 01:39:31,199
especially eight indictments on this i

2526
01:39:33,350 --> 01:39:32,080
mean what were they

2527
01:39:35,830 --> 01:39:33,360
what did what do you remember the one

2528
01:39:38,550 --> 01:39:35,840
that wanted to charge you with yeah

2529
01:39:39,430 --> 01:39:38,560
i know quite a bit about the law a lot

2530
01:39:42,470 --> 01:39:39,440
about the law

2531
01:39:43,910 --> 01:39:42,480
since then but i know even then i knew

2532
01:39:44,790 --> 01:39:43,920
what the indictments were and they

2533
01:39:47,510 --> 01:39:44,800
definitely seemed

2534
01:39:48,390 --> 01:39:47,520
unusual i knew that they came from

2535
01:39:51,669 --> 01:39:48,400
philip class

2536
01:39:54,629 --> 01:39:51,679
not from anything otherwise because

2537
01:39:58,390 --> 01:39:54,639
those indictments just weren't right on

2538
01:40:06,070 --> 01:40:01,590
you realized that a philip class had no

2539
01:40:09,990 --> 01:40:08,950
investigator showed up did not say that

2540
01:40:11,910 --> 01:40:10,000
i asked him

2541
01:40:13,830 --> 01:40:11,920
about i said do you know philip class is

2542
01:40:17,030 --> 01:40:13,840
he behind it and the guy wouldn't answer

2543
01:40:17,040 --> 01:40:30,229
so okay very clear to me

2544
01:40:34,550 --> 01:40:33,030
yeah i know i remember the word i never

2545
01:40:37,270 --> 01:40:34,560
saw it but i remember it very clearly

2546
01:40:42,550 --> 01:40:37,280
now i said

2547
01:40:42,560 --> 01:40:47,189
with bitten manipulation okay

2548
01:40:51,750 --> 01:40:49,510
based on the fact that you have created

2549
01:40:55,510 --> 01:40:51,760
a fictitious character by the name

2550
01:41:02,870 --> 01:40:59,270
okay i get that but does that relate to

2551
01:41:05,990 --> 01:41:02,880
travis walton's um oh or does that

2552
01:41:08,950 --> 01:41:06,000
relate you may have done on your own

2553
01:41:09,750 --> 01:41:08,960
no like i say they didn't even go after

2554
01:41:13,109 --> 01:41:09,760
travis

2555
01:41:16,390 --> 01:41:13,119
they were only after me bill class

2556
01:41:21,350 --> 01:41:16,400
never talked to travis walton never

2557
01:41:24,550 --> 01:41:23,669
the night that the movie far in the sky

2558
01:41:27,430 --> 01:41:24,560
premiered

2559
01:41:28,070 --> 01:41:27,440
we were in washington dc on larry king

2560
01:41:31,109 --> 01:41:28,080
live

2561
01:41:32,550 --> 01:41:31,119
okay and larry is supposed to be a

2562
01:41:36,229 --> 01:41:32,560
skeptic but he wasn't with us

2563
01:41:36,629 --> 01:41:36,239
nevertheless bill class which i wouldn't

2564
01:41:39,510 --> 01:41:36,639
even

2565
01:41:41,669 --> 01:41:39,520
talk to i told him i said you better

2566
01:41:43,030 --> 01:41:41,679
okay i'll i'll talk to phil class on

2567
01:41:46,310 --> 01:41:43,040
larry king live but

2568
01:41:47,830 --> 01:41:46,320
he better not be in the room okay now

2569
01:41:50,470 --> 01:41:47,840
actually i would just tell them this you

2570
01:41:52,470 --> 01:41:50,480
know because i didn't like phil

2571
01:41:54,070 --> 01:41:52,480
and neither did travis so they put him

2572
01:41:56,229 --> 01:41:54,080
on the monitor right

2573
01:41:57,270 --> 01:41:56,239
that is the only time that travis walton

2574
01:42:01,109 --> 01:41:57,280
ever spoke

2575
01:42:03,750 --> 01:42:01,119
to phil class the only time

2576
01:42:04,470 --> 01:42:03,760
well but what i was really i'm i'm this

2577
01:42:06,550 --> 01:42:04,480
is

2578
01:42:07,910 --> 01:42:06,560
getting off base so the question i my

2579
01:42:09,430 --> 01:42:07,920
question was simply about the

2580
01:42:11,510 --> 01:42:09,440
indictments

2581
01:42:14,870 --> 01:42:11,520
that um you say that you were going to

2582
01:42:16,229 --> 01:42:14,880
be charged with

2583
01:42:19,030 --> 01:42:16,239
which usually don't come with a cover

2584
01:42:22,550 --> 01:42:19,040
letter um

2585
01:42:24,950 --> 01:42:22,560
involving your involvement in

2586
01:42:25,750 --> 01:42:24,960
the what we call the travis walton story

2587
01:42:30,790 --> 01:42:25,760
that

2588
01:42:33,830 --> 01:42:32,790
never mention it it was just at me

2589
01:42:36,470 --> 01:42:33,840
directly

2590
01:42:36,870 --> 01:42:36,480
and uh and it was totally fictitious i

2591
01:42:38,870 --> 01:42:36,880
mean

2592
01:42:41,669 --> 01:42:38,880
that was so obvious and it obviously

2593
01:42:43,189 --> 01:42:41,679
came from philip class

2594
01:42:45,030 --> 01:42:43,199
like that was very clear to me at the

2595
01:42:48,149 --> 01:42:45,040
time so um

2596
01:42:50,310 --> 01:42:48,159
if i may but in uh thanks for thanks for

2597
01:42:53,270 --> 01:42:50,320
the call kevin and the question

2598
01:42:54,870 --> 01:42:53,280
yeah yeah i'm done i'm done now yeah um

2599
01:42:57,510 --> 01:42:54,880
would i

2600
01:42:57,910 --> 01:42:57,520
see you later so this is really based on

2601
01:43:00,790 --> 01:42:57,920
us

2602
01:43:01,750 --> 01:43:00,800
assumptions really uh as what i'm

2603
01:43:03,990 --> 01:43:01,760
gathering from you

2604
01:43:05,270 --> 01:43:04,000
mike you don't have hard evidence it was

2605
01:43:08,149 --> 01:43:05,280
philip class behind it

2606
01:43:09,430 --> 01:43:08,159
it's just a feeling because it it made

2607
01:43:11,750 --> 01:43:09,440
sense with

2608
01:43:13,270 --> 01:43:11,760
the way he kind of seemed to hassle

2609
01:43:16,390 --> 01:43:13,280
people

2610
01:43:19,750 --> 01:43:16,400
yeah the only thing i still have is what

2611
01:43:22,310 --> 01:43:19,760
i wrote the guy okay

2612
01:43:23,590 --> 01:43:22,320
and he never responded he just simply

2613
01:43:24,870 --> 01:43:23,600
left

2614
01:43:27,270 --> 01:43:24,880
i had to drive all the way over to

2615
01:43:31,590 --> 01:43:27,280
stream springerville where he was

2616
01:43:35,189 --> 01:43:31,600
in a hotel i found him

2617
01:43:38,229 --> 01:43:35,199
and i gave him that letter and he left

2618
01:43:40,709 --> 01:43:38,239
and i never heard from him again

2619
01:43:42,629 --> 01:43:40,719
okay i i'm pulling up on the screen here

2620
01:43:44,470 --> 01:43:42,639
is what you were talking about

2621
01:43:45,669 --> 01:43:44,480
uh michael thanks for that and it's

2622
01:43:48,950 --> 01:43:45,679
paranormal witness

2623
01:43:50,629 --> 01:43:48,960
episode 203b the abduction

2624
01:43:52,229 --> 01:43:50,639
is what that's called i also at this

2625
01:43:55,350 --> 01:43:52,239
time want to mention that

2626
01:43:57,430 --> 01:43:55,360
a friend of mine jennifer stein um on

2627
01:43:59,270 --> 01:43:57,440
wings production

2628
01:44:01,590 --> 01:43:59,280
did i thought she did a very nice job

2629
01:44:03,750 --> 01:44:01,600
with uh her work on the travis

2630
01:44:05,830 --> 01:44:03,760
walton instant what did you think oh

2631
01:44:06,629 --> 01:44:05,840
yeah very very good the only difference

2632
01:44:08,229 --> 01:44:06,639
between that

2633
01:44:10,149 --> 01:44:08,239
and the paranormal witness the

2634
01:44:11,510 --> 01:44:10,159
paranormal witness thing was almost a

2635
01:44:14,709 --> 01:44:11,520
movie

2636
01:44:15,590 --> 01:44:14,719
uh very very almost exactly what the

2637
01:44:18,550 --> 01:44:15,600
story was

2638
01:44:19,669 --> 01:44:18,560
uh jennifer stein's is too but hers is a

2639
01:44:23,830 --> 01:44:19,679
documentary

2640
01:44:26,070 --> 01:44:23,840
right yes that is that is definitely uh

2641
01:44:27,430 --> 01:44:26,080
uh but there's definitely a difference

2642
01:44:29,990 --> 01:44:27,440
with the documentary i thought

2643
01:44:31,669 --> 01:44:30,000
i thought she she doesn't are totally

2644
01:44:35,750 --> 01:44:31,679
accurate i mean

2645
01:44:38,149 --> 01:44:35,760
99 accurate right

2646
01:44:39,189 --> 01:44:38,159
right um we we've got about 10 minutes

2647
01:44:40,149 --> 01:44:39,199
left so

2648
01:44:44,149 --> 01:44:40,159
i don't even know how we're going to

2649
01:44:48,390 --> 01:44:46,390
i told you i was i i couldn't even talk

2650
01:44:50,149 --> 01:44:48,400
about some of these things without

2651
01:44:51,510 --> 01:44:50,159
seeing so many things that i i just

2652
01:44:55,669 --> 01:44:51,520
can't i can't

2653
01:44:57,990 --> 01:44:55,679
hold the old boring uh words right

2654
01:44:58,709 --> 01:44:58,000
all right but let's just quickly in a

2655
01:45:02,629 --> 01:44:58,719
quick

2656
01:45:05,750 --> 01:45:02,639
nutshell if you because i understand

2657
01:45:06,470 --> 01:45:05,760
uh you actually were out uh trying to

2658
01:45:10,470 --> 01:45:06,480
film the

2659
01:45:13,750 --> 01:45:10,480
hellbop uh and uh that night in

2660
01:45:15,990 --> 01:45:13,760
in in the area and you saw this thing

2661
01:45:17,030 --> 01:45:16,000
yeah well same words let me go ahead

2662
01:45:18,310 --> 01:45:17,040
from there because i know what you're

2663
01:45:20,310 --> 01:45:18,320
asking

2664
01:45:21,590 --> 01:45:20,320
i was on top of the hill and prescott

2665
01:45:24,870 --> 01:45:21,600
arizona

2666
01:45:28,950 --> 01:45:24,880
i had a a big very nice

2667
01:45:33,510 --> 01:45:28,960
it was analog but and it was a a

2668
01:45:38,790 --> 01:45:36,870
banana okay professional camera

2669
01:45:41,030 --> 01:45:38,800
analog but nevertheless that's what i

2670
01:45:42,310 --> 01:45:41,040
was doing i was on top of this hill

2671
01:45:44,070 --> 01:45:42,320
and i was trying to get pictures of the

2672
01:45:45,270 --> 01:45:44,080
hailbot comet and i was there in

2673
01:45:47,910 --> 01:45:45,280
prescott

2674
01:45:48,950 --> 01:45:47,920
because i had just tried to find alan

2675
01:45:51,510 --> 01:45:48,960
dallas

2676
01:45:52,470 --> 01:45:51,520
it was in our crew at the time and he

2677
01:45:54,390 --> 01:45:52,480
wasn't there

2678
01:45:56,070 --> 01:45:54,400
so i i just went up on the hill and i

2679
01:45:57,109 --> 01:45:56,080
had no idea what was going to happen

2680
01:45:58,950 --> 01:45:57,119
okay

2681
01:46:00,629 --> 01:45:58,960
and i was trying to film the hellbop

2682
01:46:02,709 --> 01:46:00,639
comet but

2683
01:46:04,950 --> 01:46:02,719
you know that that camera is as

2684
01:46:07,109 --> 01:46:04,960
professional as it was

2685
01:46:08,470 --> 01:46:07,119
i couldn't get a real good image of the

2686
01:46:11,510 --> 01:46:08,480
hell about comment because

2687
01:46:14,950 --> 01:46:11,520
how about comma was way dim okay

2688
01:46:18,550 --> 01:46:14,960
and uh so i put my camera away

2689
01:46:19,910 --> 01:46:18,560
for the moment and i and as i was

2690
01:46:22,390 --> 01:46:19,920
putting away

2691
01:46:23,750 --> 01:46:22,400
i saw these lights come up and it looked

2692
01:46:26,550 --> 01:46:23,760
like they were coming up

2693
01:46:28,149 --> 01:46:26,560
from below the horizon actually so that

2694
01:46:31,270 --> 01:46:28,159
complicates this whole thing

2695
01:46:33,270 --> 01:46:31,280
uh you know and it surprised me

2696
01:46:35,109 --> 01:46:33,280
especially not the time but later

2697
01:46:35,669 --> 01:46:35,119
because when i first saw those lights i

2698
01:46:38,470 --> 01:46:35,679
thought

2699
01:46:40,149 --> 01:46:38,480
oh those that's a group of helicopters

2700
01:46:42,149 --> 01:46:40,159
but as it got closer

2701
01:46:44,149 --> 01:46:42,159
uh i could see that it wasn't because i

2702
01:46:46,870 --> 01:46:44,159
could see an actual

2703
01:46:48,470 --> 01:46:46,880
uh solid structure which was like a

2704
01:46:49,990 --> 01:46:48,480
silhouette basically

2705
01:46:51,910 --> 01:46:50,000
but it was solid i could see the

2706
01:46:55,030 --> 01:46:51,920
difference between the light

2707
01:46:57,350 --> 01:46:55,040
the sky which was still dusk okay

2708
01:46:59,189 --> 01:46:57,360
so there was enough light in the sky to

2709
01:47:00,550 --> 01:46:59,199
actually see the fact that this dark

2710
01:47:03,030 --> 01:47:00,560
silhouette

2711
01:47:03,910 --> 01:47:03,040
i formed a triangle and connected all of

2712
01:47:05,510 --> 01:47:03,920
these

2713
01:47:07,270 --> 01:47:05,520
what i thought to be helicopters at

2714
01:47:11,270 --> 01:47:07,280
first

2715
01:47:13,109 --> 01:47:11,280
wow and within seconds actually uh this

2716
01:47:15,109 --> 01:47:13,119
thing was almost over the top of me

2717
01:47:17,430 --> 01:47:15,119
a little to my right as i was looking

2718
01:47:20,790 --> 01:47:17,440
towards the northeast

2719
01:47:21,990 --> 01:47:20,800
and i once it got over the top of me i

2720
01:47:24,149 --> 01:47:22,000
could see

2721
01:47:25,510 --> 01:47:24,159
very clearly that there were details in

2722
01:47:32,550 --> 01:47:25,520
it

2723
01:47:34,629 --> 01:47:32,560
okay because i'm i'm unbiased i always

2724
01:47:37,830 --> 01:47:34,639
have been

2725
01:47:40,070 --> 01:47:37,840
i don't take i look at everything okay i

2726
01:47:43,910 --> 01:47:40,080
see everything

2727
01:47:46,790 --> 01:47:43,920
especially since 1975. anyway

2728
01:47:48,390 --> 01:47:46,800
uh i can see that this thing was was

2729
01:47:52,070 --> 01:47:48,400
fabricated

2730
01:47:52,870 --> 01:47:52,080
in fact later on like the next day i

2731
01:47:55,350 --> 01:47:52,880
went back

2732
01:47:55,910 --> 01:47:55,360
and believe it or not out there in the

2733
01:47:58,390 --> 01:47:55,920
woods

2734
01:48:00,390 --> 01:47:58,400
back where this thing passed over i

2735
01:48:02,550 --> 01:48:00,400
found a sheet of plastic

2736
01:48:04,390 --> 01:48:02,560
that had broken off from this thing i

2737
01:48:06,709 --> 01:48:04,400
could see it floating down as it

2738
01:48:07,510 --> 01:48:06,719
went past and i didn't know what it was

2739
01:48:09,830 --> 01:48:07,520
but i went i

2740
01:48:10,790 --> 01:48:09,840
went over that direction later you know

2741
01:48:15,270 --> 01:48:10,800
and and

2742
01:48:18,310 --> 01:48:15,280
it was a 10 feet wide and i'm about 32

2743
01:48:21,430 --> 01:48:18,320
feet long extremely thin

2744
01:48:23,590 --> 01:48:21,440
extremely thin nevertheless to get on

2745
01:48:27,350 --> 01:48:23,600
with this story

2746
01:48:27,830 --> 01:48:27,360
there's so much to that i chased after

2747
01:48:29,430 --> 01:48:27,840
it

2748
01:48:31,430 --> 01:48:29,440
but but not before i took some

2749
01:48:34,149 --> 01:48:31,440
measurements because i do this thing

2750
01:48:36,149 --> 01:48:34,159
called snap triangulation

2751
01:48:38,629 --> 01:48:36,159
uh which i developed quite a long time

2752
01:48:41,109 --> 01:48:38,639
ago it's where you make a triangle

2753
01:48:41,910 --> 01:48:41,119
okay on the ground like 10 feet left 10

2754
01:48:43,990 --> 01:48:41,920
feet right

2755
01:48:45,270 --> 01:48:44,000
and then what with the plinimeter you

2756
01:48:48,149 --> 01:48:45,280
take an angle

2757
01:48:49,109 --> 01:48:48,159
on points okay and based on that to not

2758
01:48:52,629 --> 01:48:49,119
get into it real

2759
01:48:55,990 --> 01:48:52,639
deep i could i got the the whip

2760
01:48:58,229 --> 01:48:56,000
the l elevation and the speed

2761
01:48:59,350 --> 01:48:58,239
and this and the size you know the width

2762
01:49:01,830 --> 01:48:59,360
of it

2763
01:49:02,470 --> 01:49:01,840
uh i didn't do a link to it but you

2764
01:49:05,350 --> 01:49:02,480
could just

2765
01:49:06,149 --> 01:49:05,360
judge from there anyway i put everything

2766
01:49:08,149 --> 01:49:06,159
away and i

2767
01:49:10,310 --> 01:49:08,159
chased this thing down and i almost

2768
01:49:14,149 --> 01:49:10,320
caught up to it not quite

2769
01:49:16,870 --> 01:49:14,159
i sped on the freeway i mean like 105

2770
01:49:17,510 --> 01:49:16,880
or more miles per hour i almost caught

2771
01:49:19,030 --> 01:49:17,520
up to it

2772
01:49:20,709 --> 01:49:19,040
because it was moving faster than the

2773
01:49:22,310 --> 01:49:20,719
people in phoenix that it was

2774
01:49:25,030 --> 01:49:22,320
and it was moving way slower than the

2775
01:49:27,270 --> 01:49:25,040
people in henderson arizona said it was

2776
01:49:28,149 --> 01:49:27,280
in henderson they said it was and i

2777
01:49:30,790 --> 01:49:28,159
didn't learn

2778
01:49:33,030 --> 01:49:30,800
all this until much later and henderson

2779
01:49:35,030 --> 01:49:33,040
they said it was moving at about 1200

2780
01:49:36,950 --> 01:49:35,040
miles per hour

2781
01:49:38,229 --> 01:49:36,960
and then and in phoenix they were saying

2782
01:49:41,589 --> 01:49:38,239
it hovered

2783
01:49:42,390 --> 01:49:41,599
well i shoot there's this is so

2784
01:49:45,430 --> 01:49:42,400
complicated

2785
01:49:47,589 --> 01:49:45,440
i have investigated the finish lights

2786
01:49:49,350 --> 01:49:47,599
every year since which is almost 23

2787
01:49:51,189 --> 01:49:49,360
years now

2788
01:49:53,030 --> 01:49:51,199
and i've come up with amazing things

2789
01:49:55,350 --> 01:49:53,040
that nobody wants to hear

2790
01:49:56,550 --> 01:49:55,360
because everybody wants me everybody

2791
01:49:58,629 --> 01:49:56,560
just wants to believe

2792
01:50:00,470 --> 01:49:58,639
they don't give a damn about the wind or

2793
01:50:02,310 --> 01:50:00,480
anything else

2794
01:50:04,629 --> 01:50:02,320
well let me ask you this this this

2795
01:50:07,750 --> 01:50:04,639
question a lot of people

2796
01:50:10,310 --> 01:50:07,760
suggested what they saw was

2797
01:50:12,149 --> 01:50:10,320
up to a mile wide and maybe even much

2798
01:50:14,629 --> 01:50:12,159
more here's the exaggerations

2799
01:50:16,310 --> 01:50:14,639
i got the measurements of the thing it

2800
01:50:18,470 --> 01:50:16,320
wasn't even quite a mile

2801
01:50:20,790 --> 01:50:18,480
uh uh quite a quarter a third of a mile

2802
01:50:27,189 --> 01:50:25,350
yeah i mean that's still pretty pretty

2803
01:50:29,430 --> 01:50:27,199
what would be man-made that that could

2804
01:50:31,510 --> 01:50:29,440
have been

2805
01:50:33,430 --> 01:50:31,520
well it was it was man-made and i've

2806
01:50:34,950 --> 01:50:33,440
investigated that to the help

2807
01:50:38,310 --> 01:50:34,960
and i've come up with a lot of leads and

2808
01:50:40,790 --> 01:50:38,320
i won't say it here because

2809
01:50:44,390 --> 01:50:40,800
because i might indict somebody you know

2810
01:50:49,669 --> 01:50:47,910
wow wow interesting well well one thing

2811
01:50:51,990 --> 01:50:49,679
i will say though

2812
01:50:53,669 --> 01:50:52,000
right there not too far from the you

2813
01:50:57,430 --> 01:50:53,679
know the uh

2814
01:51:01,430 --> 01:50:57,440
prescott municipal airport is a

2815
01:51:03,910 --> 01:51:01,440
a university that that uh

2816
01:51:05,589 --> 01:51:03,920
i shoot it takes too long to explain

2817
01:51:07,910 --> 01:51:05,599
this but that's one of my

2818
01:51:09,669 --> 01:51:07,920
things right there they could have been

2819
01:51:11,189 --> 01:51:09,679
part of it and i think the government

2820
01:51:13,910 --> 01:51:11,199
hired these people

2821
01:51:14,950 --> 01:51:13,920
to do this and why would they do that

2822
01:51:17,189 --> 01:51:14,960
because the government

2823
01:51:19,030 --> 01:51:17,199
digs into everything and i think the

2824
01:51:21,270 --> 01:51:19,040
whole thing was just for the purpose of

2825
01:51:23,189 --> 01:51:21,280
getting public reaction to ufos

2826
01:51:25,350 --> 01:51:23,199
because that's always been big in their

2827
01:51:25,669 --> 01:51:25,360
mind and one way or the other they want

2828
01:51:32,310 --> 01:51:25,679
to

2829
01:51:35,030 --> 01:51:32,320
this with you

2830
01:51:35,589 --> 01:51:35,040
and maybe engage with you um how would

2831
01:51:39,109 --> 01:51:35,599
they

2832
01:51:41,589 --> 01:51:39,119
you not want to

2833
01:51:43,109 --> 01:51:41,599
tell you what hey i like that nobody

2834
01:51:45,109 --> 01:51:43,119
wants to believe it

2835
01:51:48,550 --> 01:51:45,119
i have actually got the documentation i

2836
01:51:50,629 --> 01:51:48,560
got a whole package of documentation and

2837
01:51:52,070 --> 01:51:50,639
and i have put this forward to people i

2838
01:51:54,070 --> 01:51:52,080
mean i belong to all kinds of these

2839
01:51:56,550 --> 01:51:54,080
paranormal groups right

2840
01:51:58,229 --> 01:51:56,560
and because nobody else is interested

2841
01:52:01,910 --> 01:51:58,239
okay

2842
01:52:02,870 --> 01:52:01,920
anyway oh gosh anyway i have put that

2843
01:52:04,870 --> 01:52:02,880
forward to them

2844
01:52:06,550 --> 01:52:04,880
and the first thing they do is [\h__\h]

2845
01:52:09,189 --> 01:52:06,560
[\h__\h] you know

2846
01:52:11,189 --> 01:52:09,199
and i say i've got the documentation and

2847
01:52:14,229 --> 01:52:11,199
and i've been doing this for months now

2848
01:52:14,870 --> 01:52:14,239
actually for years actually and uh only

2849
01:52:17,990 --> 01:52:14,880
one

2850
01:52:19,350 --> 01:52:18,000
only put okay two people have asked me

2851
01:52:21,350 --> 01:52:19,360
for the documentation

2852
01:52:22,790 --> 01:52:21,360
i sent it to him and they say nothing

2853
01:52:24,629 --> 01:52:22,800
after that

2854
01:52:26,470 --> 01:52:24,639
well i will tell you and sit down

2855
01:52:27,109 --> 01:52:26,480
believe in the finished lights they just

2856
01:52:29,270 --> 01:52:27,119
insist on

2857
01:52:30,870 --> 01:52:29,280
now they have a big party every year in

2858
01:52:33,910 --> 01:52:30,880
phoenix with scottsdale

2859
01:52:36,550 --> 01:52:33,920
a street party a big street party yeah

2860
01:52:37,830 --> 01:52:36,560
all based on the beach life everybody

2861
01:52:39,589 --> 01:52:37,840
wants to believe it

2862
01:52:41,109 --> 01:52:39,599
well we're out of time and i would like

2863
01:52:42,229 --> 01:52:41,119
for you to send that to me because

2864
01:52:44,470 --> 01:52:42,239
you know i had a conversation with

2865
01:52:47,109 --> 01:52:44,480
someone today that's into

2866
01:52:48,070 --> 01:52:47,119
this topic and uh they were mentioning

2867
01:52:50,709 --> 01:52:48,080
another thing and

2868
01:52:52,229 --> 01:52:50,719
the conversation was um you know people

2869
01:52:53,990 --> 01:52:52,239
don't want to know the truth about

2870
01:52:55,669 --> 01:52:54,000
certain things if the truth happens

2871
01:52:57,990 --> 01:52:55,679
because it disrupts everything

2872
01:52:58,950 --> 01:52:58,000
but i'd like to see it and we have to go

2873
01:53:02,550 --> 01:52:58,960
so

2874
01:53:05,910 --> 01:53:02,560
tonight mike i'll send it to you martin

2875
01:53:09,430 --> 01:53:05,920
all right take care you bet all right

2876
01:53:11,189 --> 01:53:09,440
thank you all right everyone so that's

2877
01:53:13,589 --> 01:53:11,199
it for our show this evening remember

2878
01:53:14,870 --> 01:53:13,599
if you're going to be live on youtube

2879
01:53:16,550 --> 01:53:14,880
you want to head over

2880
01:53:18,149 --> 01:53:16,560
this coming saturday night and that's

2881
01:53:20,310 --> 01:53:18,159
the 31st halloween

2882
01:53:21,669 --> 01:53:20,320
and 6 p.m we're going to be there with

2883
01:53:23,430 --> 01:53:21,679
paul stonehill

2884
01:53:29,170 --> 01:53:23,440
thanks everyone and remember to keep